Canine club: From wolves to dogs! — Transcript
This is a transcript of our episode “Canine club: From wolves to dogs!”
Listen to the episode: Website | Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts
— START OF TRANSCRIPT —
Maya: You’re listening to Brains On where we’re serious about being curious.
Voice: Brains on is supported in part by a grant from the National Science Foundation.
Molly Bloom: Hey, Sanden.
Maya: Whoa, Sanden, is that mini poodle typing?
Sanden: Hey, Molly. Hey, Maya. Yeah, that's my dog Penelope. She joined some kind of social media app for dogs and she's kinda into it.
Maya: Kind of? She looks obsessed.
Molly: I've never seen a dog type that fast or at all. How did she learn that?
Sanden: Honestly, I don't know but it's a huge problem. She won't let me use the computer for anything else and the weird part is, I don't even know what she’s writing. It's just bark, bark, howl, bark, woof, bark, howl.
Molly: It's some kind of phonetic dog language. I wonder what she's saying.
[music]
Penelope: Hey Dubs, I saw your page on fetch.com and I had to send you a note. It's so cool to chat with a real, live wolf. Your life must be so cool living in the woods, hunting things, being tough and wolfy. I'm a poodle, so we couldn't be more different.
Dubs: Penelope, hi. [howls] Yeah, I'm a wolf. Living in the woods is pretty cool. I can chase squirrels whenever I want.
Penelope: Wait, I love chasing squirrels too, lol.
Dubs: Really? It's like literally my favorite thing to do with my pack.
Penelope: Hold up, you have a pack? That is so weird because I also have a pack. It's my human, Sanden and some of our favorite house plants. Don't tell Sanden but sometimes I pee on the plants to mark my territory. It's so random, right?
Dubs: I do that too. Wow. We actually have a lot in common.
Penelope: For realsies? I thought it was just me and my canine family that loved a good territory mark.
Dubs: Hold up, Penelope, my family is the canine family too but with a C. Your family must be kanine with a K, right?
Penelope: No, I'm a canine with a C too. Could we-
Dubs: Be very distantly related?
Penelope: -be very distantly related?
[howl and yips]
[music]
Molly: This is Brains On from American Public Media. I’m Molly Bloom and with me today is Maya from Maine. Hi Maya.
Maya: Hi Molly.
Molly: We asked you to co-host this wolf-filled episode because you asked us a cunning canine question. What was that question that you sent to us?
Maya: The question was, "Why do we have dogs as pets but not distant relatives of dogs like wolves?".
Molly: That is a really excellent question. I'm going to answer that in just a bit, but what made you think of this question?
Maya: I thought that wolves and dogs have very similar features.
Molly: I'm guessing you have a dog then?
Maya: Yes, I do. Her name is Luna.
Molly: What kind of dog is she?
Maya: She's a yellow lab.
Molly: Does Luna ever act like a wolf?
Maya: Other than chasing squirrels, no.
Molly: Have you ever seen a wolf in real life?
Maya: No, because if I had I probably would be running away screaming my face off.
Molly: You're a little scared of wolves?
Maya: Absolutely, yeah. (laughs)
Molly: You said you noticed that wolves and dogs have similar features. Can you talk about which features those are that you noticed?
Maya: Muzzles and I think the stature. I also thought it's almost their eyes, they seem wild and exciting, like a certain canine fire.
Molly: Nice. There are so many different kinds of dogs. What dog in your mind is the least wolf-looking?
Maya: Chihuahuas.
Molly: Which breed of dog do you think is the most wolf-like?
Maya: Huskies, definitely huskies.
Molly: Well, we are going to answer your question about wolves and dogs in just a bit but first, let's dig into this wolf business.
Collin: Hi, my name is Collin and I'm from Mount Prospect, Illinois. My question is, why do wolves howl and do canines have different vocal cords than humans?
Maya: My name is Maya and I'm Orofino, Idaho. We live in an area where there are lots of wolves. I'd like to know my wolves howl.
Molly: To help us with the answer, we got in touch with two expert wolf watchers.
Dr Holly Root-Gutteridge: Hi, I'm Dr Holly Root-Gutteridge and I'm a researcher at the University of Lincoln.
Dr Arik Kershenbaum: Hey, my name is Dr Arik Kershenbaum and I teach at the University of Cambridge. Most of the time when wolves howl, they're howling to communicate with other wolves that are far away.
[howls]
Holly: Sometimes they'll howl to say to their friends in the pack who are usually their brothers and sisters and their parents, "Hey, I'm over here. Where are you?"
Wolf 1: Howwwwww are all you tonight? I'm over heeeeeere.
Wolf 2: I'm gooooood. There's a tree over here and I'm going to peeeeee on it.
Wolf 1: Oh, coooooool.
Arik: Maybe you want to call them back so that you can go hunting. Maybe you've managed to do some hunting and you've got some food that you want to share with them.
Holly: Sometimes the pack will come together and howl and warn off other wolves in other packs that, "We're here, this is our land, stay away".
Wolf 1: Howl, keep away.
Wolf 2: Howl, we're soooo big and stroooong.
Wolf 1: And we know kung-fuuuuu.
Holly: Sometimes you get a wolf on its own that will howl to say, "Hey, I'm lonely. Is there anybody else out there who maybe might like me?", and they'll try to find a mate for the next season by howling to other wolves in the area.
[howls]
Arik: There's another reason that wolves howl, and that's just because they like it and that's not as silly as it sounds because all animals that live in groups, monkeys and parrots and humans, all have some activity that they use to strengthen the bonds of friendship between the members of the group.
Holly: If you think about singing in a choir, I think it's like that for them.
Wolf 3: Everybody ready? On three, one, two, three.
[music]
[howls]
Holly: They just really enjoy the experience of sharing their voices with the rest of the pack and coming together as a family for a good sing-song.
Arik: For that matter, when your dog sings along to the music of your favorite TV show because he or she is sitting in a group of this family and wants to feel a part of the group.
[music]
[howls]
Wolf 3: That was great. Nice singing everyone.
Wolf 2: Really? I thought I was a little sharp.
Wolf 3: The only thing sharp about you are your razor sharp fangs, pal.
Wolf 2: You're the best pack mate.
Wolf 3: No, you're the best.
[howls]
Automated voice: Brains, brains, brains on.
[howls]
[clarinet plays]
Jade: Hi, I'm Jade. That was me playing my clarinet and my dog howling to it, bye.
Molly: Thank you for that awesome sound Jade. Now Maya, I'm sorry to say we don't have a dog here to accompany you in studio but we do have a fun little game. Get ready for some fantastic howl facts. I'm going to give you three statements and your job is to guess which one is true. Are you ready?
Maya: Yes.
Automated voice: Number one.
Molly: Howls always start in the key of C.
Automated voice: Number two.
Molly: Wolves in different parts of the world howl with different accents or-
Automated voice: Number three.
Molly: -wolves only howl when the moon is out.
Maya: I think that two is correct.
Molly: The answer is...
Holly: Like humans have accents from where they're born, wolves are the same and if you have a Californian wolf or a Canadian wolf, they'll sound different to each other when they howl.
Automated voice: Number two.
Molly: You were correct. Nice work.
Maya: Yes!
[laughter]
Molly: As far as we can tell, it's just a myth that wolves howl at the moon. They do tend to howl at night, so maybe that's where that idea comes from and sadly, wolves don't always howl in the key of C but that would make harmonizing with them so much easier. Arik Kershenbaum says, you can tell where a wolf is from by the changes in the pitch and frequency in its howl.
Arik: This is a timber wolf.
[howls]
Arik: You can hear that the pitch starts high and then it goes down and then it steps down again. This is a European wolf.
[howls]
Arik: It's very flat. It's just the same pitch all the way along. We don't really know why wolves in different places sound different. It may be because they are actually quite different so they have different genetics and they've been subject to different evolution. It could be because in different landscapes, different kinds of howls are more useful. If you live in a forest, it may be better to howl with a howl that goes up and down a lot more and if you live in the open Arctic, it might be better to howl with a howl that's a very constant pitch.
[howl]
[music]
Teacher: Hello. Welcome to Howling 101. If you plan to study wolves, you need a good howl. That way, you can call out to the animals in the wild and hopefully get a reply, which, honestly, I wish would work for people. Why won't you answer my text, Jasper? We need to practice our competitive synchronized knitting or we'll lose the big yarn tournament. (clears throat)
Where was I? Oh, yes, when wolves howl back, researchers can better track them and study them. So without further ado, we proudly present Howling 101 with Dr Holly Root-Gutteridge.
Holly: The way I got taught was if you cup your hands around your mouth, take a really deep breath, and then start low and go high. Think about how movie wolves howl and try to imitate that a little bit. Try to do it like you're singing almost. I'm a little out of practice. It's been a little while since I've done this and I won't do it full volume because my neighbors will complain. This is how I would try to do a wolf howl [howls]. I actually really like listening to them just howl. I think it's beautiful.
Teacher: Brilliant, Jasper wrote back too, "Sorry, I was at the store picking up new knitting needles. Practice tonight?" Yarn doodle! Excuse me. Now, on with the show.
[music]
Molly: So wolves and humans have very similar vocal cords so that's why we can also howl. Maya, do you want to try howling with me? I promise it won't be weird. Maybe a little weird, but it's going to be great. Are you ready?
Maya: Yeah.
Molly: Cup your hands and put them on the sides of your mouth. Then on the count of three, we're going to howl. One, two, three.
[howl]
Molly: Nice howl.
Maya: Thank you.
[laughter]
[music]
Molly: Coming up, we're going to learn more about wolf packs and dens.
Maya: And we'll get to my question about wolves and dogs, so stick around.
Molly: You know, a good leader is one that is focused on growth, has strong roots in its community and always gives plenty back.
Maya: Which is exactly what plants do.
Molly: Precisely. That's why we think a plant might make a good president. We want your slogans for these lean, green world-saving machines. Maya, can you give us an example?
Maya: Sure. I'm a plant and you can't live without me, seriously.
Molly: That was good! Very persuasive. I would vote for you.
Maya: Thank you. [laughs]
Molly: We're doing an episode all about the secret world of plants and we want your slogans for it. Record yourself giving us your best pitch for plants as president then go to brainson.org and send it our way.
Maya: You can also send us a drawing, mystery sound or a question.
Molly: Like these listeners did.
Laura: Hi, my name is Laura. I am seven years old.
Braden: My name is Braden. I'm five years old.
Laura: We're from North Providence, Rhode Island.
Braden: My question is, how do lips get chapped?
Maya: We'll answer that question at the end of the show.
Molly: Plus, we'll howl out the new names on the Brains honor roll.
Maya: Keep listening.
Molly: You're listening to Brains On. I'm Molly.
Maya: And I'm Maya.
Molly: And brace yourself. Here comes the-
[Voice: mystery sound.]
Molly: Are you ready, Maya?
Maya: Yeah.
Molly: Okay [laughs], here it is.
[plays mystery sound]
Molly: What is your guess?
Maya: [laughs] My guess is dog sledding.
Molly: Very good guess.
Maya: Because I heard almost like barking and crunching snow and the sound of a sled on snow being pulled. That sounds really ridiculous but there's a certain sound that has.
Molly: You know what? You sound very informed. That's an excellent guess. We're going to be back with the answer in just a moment.
Automated voice: Brains on.
Molly: Let's get back to the wonderful world of wolves.
Maya: Wolves are social creatures.
Molly: Just like us.
Maya: That means wolves like to live in groups and work together. We call their groups packs.
Molly: We sent our friend Britta Greene to the Minnesota Zoo to learn more about life in a wolf pack.
Britta Greene: A big part of pack life takes place in a den but what is a den exactly? Dawn Devins from the Minnesota Zoo says basically it's a place a mama wolf goes to have her babies.
Dawn Devins: Dens can be anything from a crevice in a rock formation, some fallen logs that a female could dig out underneath and have a safe protected area in order to have her pups born.
Britta: Wolf pups are born small and blind so they depend on their parents for everything. Mom gives them milk and dad hunts fresh food. Usually, after just a few months, they'll be exploring outside but this almost didn't happen for the wolves at the zoo.
[music]
They were born in the wild, in Alaska. There was a big wildfire near their den when they were just two weeks old. Their mom disappeared, she either died in the fire or fled from the flames. Luckily, firefighters saved the pups and they were brought here to Minnesota.
Dawn: We have that one over there. I think that might be Hooper.
Britta: Dawn points out one of the wolves. They live in a pen that looks like Northern Minnesota. This time of year, it's covered in snow, dotted with rocks and cedar and pine trees. Visitors can say hi from behind wooden and chain-link fences. Along with Hooper, there's Gannett, Leah, Stebbins, and X-ray.
Dawn: Even though they are a family pack, they have a variety of colors. Wolves can go anywhere from dark grey and black to almost kind of a, I would almost say like a German Shepherd kind of color, a tawny brown and gray color.
Britta: She says a typical pack in Minnesota is about six to eight wolves, usually siblings and their mother and father. Sometimes the pack will let wolves that aren't relatives join in. Having a pack isn't just about having a family to hang out with, it's also about hunting.
[music]
Britta: Wolf packs often track their prey, like herds of deer, for long periods of time. They are looking for an animal that's weak or sick or old, easier to take down. They'll surround their target and coordinate so they can back each other up. If the deer starts to run away, then Dawn says, they'll attack.
Dawn: They have one of the strongest jaw bites. As you can imagine, when they do catch their prey, they want to hold on to it [laughs].
Britta: It's a total team effort and if all goes well, everyone gets enough to eat. At the zoo though, life is a little easier. Wolves here don't have to hunt to get fed. Actually, the zoo delivers their meat that's ready-to-eat, things like rabbits and chickens. Right now, the wolves are just relaxing, lounging around.
Dawn: I think they're just waiting. They're very good at knowing when it's getting close to dinnertime [laughs].
Britta: I saw this guy just came up and was going to nuzzle the other one and then he took off. Are they buddies, you would say?
Dawn: Yes, they are family members so brothers and sisters [laughs]. If you have family members, you know when somebody comes in the room, it's your turn to move because they might just bully you out of your seat in the living room somewhere.
Britta: Just like in any family, she says, pack mates don't always get along, but at least they know they'll be there for each other when they're really in need.
[music]
Molly: Maya, are you ready to try again that mystery sound?
Maya: Yes, I am.
Molly: All right, here it is one more time.
[mystery sound]
Molly: Maya, do you want to stick with your original guess?
Maya: I think I do.
Molly: You thought it was dog sledding. Here is the answer.
Gretta and Gwen: Our names are Greta and Gwen from Plymouth, Minnesota.
Gwen: The sound you just heard is dog sledding way up north, almost in Canada.
Gretta: The dogs’ harnesses were jingling when the dogs sled. You can hear the sled crunching on the ice. Our favorite part is when we go on hills, it feels like you're on a roller coaster.
Gwen: You yell commands to teach the dogs what to do. 'Hike' is go faster. If you go 'Whoa', that means slow down or stop.
Greta: I learned how to drive the dog sled but I can't stop the brakes because I'm too light.
Molly: Nice work, Maya.
Maya: Yes [laughs].
Molly: You were 100% correct. Have you been dog sledding?
Maya: No, never ever.
Molly: Well, you sounded very knowledgeable about dog sledding. You've got everything right so I'm very impressed with your excellent ears.
[howls]
Molly: Now, we know dogs and wolves have a lot in common and that leads us to this question.
Maya: Hi, my name is Maya. I'm six and a half years old. My question is, why do we have dogs as pets but not wolves? Wolves are still dogs and foxes, foxes are still dogs, so why not have them as pets?
Leila: My name is Leila. I live in Brussels, Belgium. My question is, how did dogs evolve from wolves?
Maya: Here to help us answer these questions is Bridgett VonHoldt.
Molly: She's an evolutionary biologist at Princeton University.
Maya: Welcome, Bridgett.
Bridgett VonHoldt: Hi, thank you for inviting me.
Maya: How did dogs evolve from wolves?
Bridgett: This is a really complex change, to go from a wild animal to being this domestic dog that we have in our lives and in our homes. This process happened over thousands of years. Really, what happened is that people originally formed this relationship, this communication with wild wolves. We suspect that this had a lot to do with how they hunted. That early on, as humans were still hunting and gathering food that way, that there was this relationship and maybe communication with a local wolf pack where they were also doing the same hunting and gathering of food resources.
That transition took thousands of years. This was a really long process. Early dogs or really rather what they were, are wolves, are living closer and closer to human settlements. Some hypotheses say that these wolves were living closer to our trash dumps where we would put empty carcasses or any other food waste we had and eventually, as these wolves were living closer and closer to people, they had to be more tolerant of people's presence. Ultimately, the idea is that these wild wolves were adjusting to human presence and were living in and among the villages. Often, dogs, even early in domestication, were just living with people but not necessarily inside a house and being restrained on a leash or a harness.
Maya: Why can we have dogs as pets but not wolves, that's my original question?
Bridgett: Wildlife are unpredictable, they are not tame, they don't live in a house, it's hard to train them. Most of the reasons why we shouldn't have a wolf as a pet is because it's for the health of the animal and it's not easy to handle them. Through that domestication, we've turned these wolves into dogs, that way we actually have this little animal that we are very closely bonded to. They rely very heavily upon us for everything from food, to shelter and companionship.
Maya: How did this one species of wolves turn into so many different breeds of dogs and types of dogs just like-- Is that human doing or is that natural?
Bridgett: That is such a good question. This ends up being a combination of both. To give maybe a little example of the natural side of this. If you look at maybe a litter of puppies, and they all come from the same mom and dad, sometimes some of the puppies might have brown fur, others might have little splotchy colors, another one might be white with bigger black patches on them but they all come from the same two parents. The natural part of all of this variation in dogs that we see is because every individual has a slightly different set of genes.
Now, if we talk about how people became involved in that. If we imagine that we were a dog breeder and we wanted to maybe create a brand new type of dog, and we saw something interesting, one of the puppies was maybe this unique color that we'd never seen before. We would really want to use that dog, when it grew up, to have more puppies in hopes that it would have more like it. As we started doing that a lot, we found that humans could create lots of differences between animals from tiny little teacup dogs to these giant Great Danes. It's great quite incredible.
Maya: Wow.
Molly: Thank you so much for being here today, Bridgett.
Bridgett: Thank you.
Maya: Bye, thanks.
Bridgett: Thanks. Bye.
Molly: Canines and people have a special relationship. Wolves, in particular, are very important to many Native American tribes. Wolves and humans are seen as brothers and sisters by the Anishinabe or Ojibwe nations.
[wolf howls]
Bizhikiins: Boozhoo. Hello, my name is Bizhikiins or Dylan Jennings. I come from the Bad River Band of the Lake Superior Anishinaabeg in Northern Wisconsin. I work as a public information office director at the Great Lakes Indian Fish and Wildlife Commission. Wolves have a very, very important role to play in our communities traditionally and even today. A lot of that goes back to a relationship from our original stories, our original stories of creation.
The wolf and original man were some of the two beings that in our stories, went around and named everything in creation, gave everything a name together, and traveled together. At a different part within our stories, it talks about ma'iingan which is the Ojibwe word that describes wolf, and then the Anishinaabeg having to take separate paths, separate trails, and splitting up kind of diverging along that path. What teaching we derive from that is that what happens to one of us will happen to the other.
Well, there was a time, not too long ago, where wolves were almost eradicated from this area, which means that there weren't many left. A lot of that coincided in a time where it wasn't okay to be Ojibwe or to be Native American. They were told to blend in and essentially remove that Ojibwe-ness or that essence of being an indigenous person from their being. Those two things really mirror each other in our history. There are instances where we believe that saying, 'What happens to one will happen to the other' have actually come to fruition, to take care of and look after one another because we are considered to be relatives or, some say, to be brothers.
When we talk about protecting ma'iingan, there are only so many packs throughout the region here. Every time that somebody builds on land or cuts down trees, we infringe upon the land that ma'iingan used to traditionally frequent. We see these wolves and these other beings because we're in their habitat, we're in their home. We need to remember that we as humans, within our Ojibwe creation story, we were some of the last ones to be put on this earth and all the animals and the beings before were here prior to. Wolves aren't just this old portrayal of Little Red Riding Hood and the Bad Wolf. They're actually beautiful beings that help with a lot of ecosystem management and helping to spur biodiversity. Biodiversity is making sure that there's a good order within our ecosystems and things are kept well and taken care of.
[howls]
[music]
Molly: Wolves howl for lots of reasons but mostly, it's a way to communicate with other wolves over long distances.
Maya: Wolves in different parts of the world have different styles of howls, sort of like regional accents.
Molly: They live in park so they can hunt as a team and take down large prey.
Maya: Wolves evolved into dogs over thousands of years.
Molly: Humans and canines, including wolves, have had a special relationship for a very, very long time. That's it for this episode of Brains On.
Maya: It was produced by Marc Sanchez, Menaka Wilhelm, Sanden Totten and Molly Bloom.
Molly: We had production help from Kristina Lopez, Ruby Guthrie and Britta Greene and engineering help from Veronica Rodriguez, James Curwood, and Dan Kearns. Special thanks to Phyllis Fletcher, Taylor Kaufman, Mike Kessler, Robert Garova, Rachel Benenati, Tom Weber, and Mike Isham. Thanks to Wolf Park in Indiana for some of the wolf sounds you heard, and a big thanks to Arik Kershenbaum and Holly Root-Gutteridge
Maya: Now, before we go, it's time for our moment of 'Um'.
Braden: How do lips get chapped?
Dr Roxana Daneshjou: That's actually a great question. The lips get chapped because the skin is thinner, and they don't have the same protective layer of oil as the rest of your skin does. Hi, I'm Dr Roxana Daneshjou. I am a dermatologist, which is a doctor that takes care of your skin, your hair, and your nails.
There can be many different reasons people get chapped lips. For example, you probably noticed that your lips are more chapped in the winter time. The reason for that is that the cold air and the wind outside, as well as the dry heaters inside are dehydrating are lips.
Lips can also get chapped and dry from irritation as well. You may wonder what's irritating your lips? Well, it can be a number of things. Some people are really sensitive to scented products and perfumes and don't realize that the chapstick they're using is actually making things worse because those perfumes are irritating. Saliva is actually very irritating and will make your lips even drier. People often lick their lips without even realizing that they're doing it. People who notice that their lips are dry and they lick them to try to get them wet, but what happens is you get that saliva, which has all these irritating stuff that is used to help break down food onto the skin of your lips and it irritates your lips more making them more dry and chapped.
[music]
[Honor Roll]
Molly: We’ll be back soon with more answers to your questions.
Maya: Thanks for listening!
— END OF TRANSCRIPT —