Why does salt make food taste so good?
Bohdan Bevz / Getty
Salt is made up of tiny crystals! Under a microscope, some salt crystals look like pyramids, staircases, or even snowflakes. But why do these salty little crystals make food so tasty?
Join Molly and co-host Yasmin as they explore the science of salt. They’ll head to the Brains On Labrakitchen with producer Anna Goldfield for a lesson about salt science. Then, food journalist and cookbook author Priya Krishna will stop by to chat about cooking with salt. Plus, a mystery sound so tricky, it might make you a little salty!
Featured Guests:
Priya Krishna is a food journalist and video host for the New York Times. She’s the author of multiple cookbooks including Priya’s Kitchen Adventures, an illustrated cookbook for kids.
Audio Transcript
Download transcript (PDF)
CHILD 1: You're listening to Brains On, where we're serious about being curious.
CHILD 2: Brains On is supported in part by a grant from the National Science Foundation.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Oh, hey, friends. Sanden, here. I'm at Brains On headquarters to sell my pals on my latest genius-level idea, Sanden's salt-speriences. They're going to love it.
[DOORBELL RINGING]
Oh, good. Here comes Molly now. She loves all my schemes-- I mean, genius-level ideas.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sanden, why are you ringing the doorbell? Your keys are literally in your hand.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Why, hey there, neighbor. Do you have a taste for adventure?
MOLLY BLOOM: Of course, I do. My nickname is Molly "Adventure" Bloom. You know that.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Well, then, I'm here to sell you on the ultimate adventure, a fabulous salt experience.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sell me salt? Sanden, we literally have bags of it in the labber kitchen.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Molly, Molly, Molly, Molly, my sweet, innocent, unsalted friend. I said the salt experience. The salt-sperience, if you will. For instance, want to relax by the seaside, but have no time to travel? Try Sanden's and Make Your Own Ocean Kit.
[ZIPPER]
Ta da!
MOLLY BLOOM: A jar of salt water?
SANDEN TOTTEN: I think you mean your own private ocean. Can't you just hear the waves, the seagulls? [IMITATES WAVES CRASHING AND SEAGULLS CALLING] Oh, I could see you're relaxing already, Molly.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sanden, I don't know if-- Or how about our Winter Salt Kit?
SANDEN TOTTEN: Just throw sand and salt in the air, and it's just like it's snowing.
[SALT LANDING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Ugh, gross, mouth full of salt.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Want to hang out with all your cool friends who are in a band, but you don't know how to play any instruments? Well, just bring along your trusty jar of Sanden's Magical Musical Salt and boom!
[SALT SHAKING]
Now, you're a percussionist.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sanden, I have to go get ready to tape a Brains On episode. This has been interesting.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Wait, wait, Molly, I haven't even told you about the best part. You can eat this stuff too, yeah, by the handfuls. See? [GROANS IN DISGUST] That is very salty. [SPITS]
[THEME MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to brains on from APM Studios. I'm Molly Bloom, and my co-host today is Yasmin from Vancouver, British Columbia. Hi, Yasmin.
YASMIN: Hi, Molly.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Today, we're spicing things up with an extra-flavorful subject.
YASMIN: It's the science of salt.
SANDEN TOTTEN: We're answering this question from Anna.
ANNA: I was wondering, why does salt make everything taste so good?
SANDEN TOTTEN: It's hard to imagine life without salt.
YASMIN: Boring, bland pretzels.
MOLLY BLOOM: Forgettable French fries.
YASMIN: Dull, dull pickles.
MOLLY BLOOM: Crave-less casseroles? No, thank you. Salt improves so many foods, it's simply ridiculous. Yasmin, are you more of a salty snack or sweet snack person?
YASMIN: Personally, I think I'm a bit of both, but I don't like overly salty snacks or overly sweet snacks.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, me too. So do you do a lot of cooking at home?
YASMIN: I really like baking, and I'm even doing a science project for the science fair, where I'm going to be making cupcakes and using different egg substitutes. And my whole thing is about if different egg substitutes make a difference in the way a cupcake will bake.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, that's super cool. Well, you'll have to tell me the results because my niece is actually allergic to eggs, so this would be super useful information. That's such a cool experiment. And you've lived in different countries, right?
YASMIN: Yes, I've been back and forth traveling all over the world in my life. Most recently, I lived in Japan. I've been going back and forth between Japan and Canada, really. When I was really little, one years old, I lived in Brazil for a year because my dad's family is from Brazil.
MOLLY BLOOM: So you've had a lot of experience lately with Japanese food and Canadian food. Do you feel like there's a difference between how salt is used in Japanese food versus the food you have when you're in Vancouver?
YASMIN: I feel like in Japanese cuisine, there's lots of salty food, like miso and stuff. But I feel like sugar is used alongside that in quite a few dishes. And I feel like there's a lot of different flavors that in food in Canada I don't find. Even if I go to a Japanese restaurant, I'm like, that's not the same as it tastes in Japan. Why can't you make it the same?
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, I feel like when I have Japanese food, there's just like so many different kinds of saltiness that you experience. The seaweed sheets are salty and soy sauce and the miso. And it's all so delicious.
YASMIN: I love Japanese food.
MOLLY BLOOM: Me too. Now, this episode is making me so hungry.
[AUDIO LOGO]
Brains On!
MOLLY BLOOM: Salt is actually made up of little crystals.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Arr! A crystal and a true treasure. Ahoy.
[MUSIC PLAYING, SEAGULLS CALLING]
YASMIN: Molly, did you invite a pirate ship into the studio?
MOLLY BLOOM: It wasn't me this time, I swear.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Arr, how's it going, mateys?
MOLLY BLOOM: Wait, is that producer Anna Goldfield in a pirate hat and adorable floppy dog ears? This is delightful, though not what I was expecting.
YASMIN: I also did not have this on my bingo card for today.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: I'm a salty sea dog-- get it?-- captain of the finest ship and saltiest crew to ever sail the seven seas. I'm also here to talk about salt and why we love to eat it.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, great. Perfect timing, Anna.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Well, if there's one thing us pirates are known for, it's our impeccable timing and punctuality.
YASMIN: I would have gone for big ships and pirate flags.
MOLLY BLOOM: Or parrots, or eye patches, walking planks.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Yes, but we also have great timing. Look, I brought the Brains On zoom ray so I could show you guys salt up close. I saw Sanden in the hallway, and he offered to sell me some salt for just three easy payments of 39.99, total bargain.
MOLLY BLOOM: Again, we literally have bags of salt in the labber kitchen that you can use for free.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Oh. That's a better idea. And I can check on the batch of soft pretzels I was making earlier.
YASMIN: To the labber kitchen!
Here we are.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Welcome to the labber kitchen, Yasmin.
YASMIN: Wow, it smells amazing in here. There's so many things bubbling away on the stove.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Mark's working on his chili recipe and stewing some prunes. My soft pretzels are in the oven. And I think Bob is trying to develop less flavorful water.
YASMIN: Oh, check out that giant shelf of pickles.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: That's my parade of pickles project. No big deal, but they're really coming along. And here are the bags of good old, extremely free salt. Let's fire up the zoom ray and have a look.
VOICES: Zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom.
YASMIN: Wow, the grains of salt are shaped like tiny cubes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome, right? There's more than one kind of salt, and some look like pyramids or staircases or even snowflakes under a microscope. The salt we use in the kitchen is called sodium chloride, and that name comes from the atoms it's made of.
YASMIN: I've heard of atoms. They're super tiny building blocks that make up everything in the universe.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Sodium chloride is made of two atoms, a sodium atom and a chlorine atom, each hugging each other with their chemical bonds.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, that's cute. And sodium chloride is what we find in everything from kosher salt to Himalayan pink salt to that fancy flaky gray salt.
YASMIN: Is sodium chloride the same stuff that makes the ocean salty?
ANNA GOLDFIELD: It sure is. All the salt that we use in food comes from two places. It's either dug out of the ground or collected from seawater. Either way, it's all still sodium chloride.
YASMIN: So why do we love putting salt in our food?
ANNA GOLDFIELD: It's all in our heads. When you put food in your mouth, your tongue sends signals to your brain about what that stuff is. Your brain takes those signals and translates them. What we experience as taste is that translation.
YASMIN: Every taste? Sweet, sour, bitter, all that jazz?
ANNA GOLDFIELD: I don't know if we can taste jazz, but all tastes are translated by our brain. And that's really important. If our taste buds sense stuff in food that our body needs, our brain goes, heck yeah.
That gives us the feeling that what we're eating is delicious. Stuff that's harmful often tastes very bitter or sharp, and that is our brain telling us, nope, do not eat.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our sense of taste protects us, and since our taste buds and brains like salt, we must need it.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: We do. To work, our brains and bodies need sodium, but we can't make sodium inside our body. Instead, it has to come from the things that we eat and drink.
YASMIN: So we eat things with salt to get the sodium our bodies need?
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Yes, but we also constantly lose salt, mostly through pee. So to keep our brains and bodies happy, we need to eat salty things fairly often. And fun fact, sports drinks actually have a little salt in them. If you're doing sweaty activities, you might need to replace your body's supply of sodium.
MOLLY BLOOM: But how come we don't drink ocean water, then? It's full of salt.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Yes, but definitely not refreshing. That's because there's too much of a good thing. Ocean water has way more salt than our bodies can handle, and drinking a bunch of it would make you feel pretty sick. That's why we don't want to add too much salt to our foods either.
[PING]
My pretzels are done. Arr, help yourselves. Now, if you'll excuse this salty sea dog, the ocean, she calls to me. I'm off to sail around, eat pretzels-- oh, so good-- and sing sea shanties. Anchors away.
YASMIN: Thanks for stopping by, Anna. And please, take the seagulls with you. They're getting feathers everywhere, not to mention all the poop.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Catch you later, shipmates. Let's go, gulls.
[JINGLE]
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, it's time to spice up your day with a little listening challenge. Yasmin, get ready for the--
[WHIMSICAL MUSIC]
Mystery sound.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yasmin, are you ready for the mystery sound?
YASMIN: Yes!
MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome. Here it is.
[BUZZING]
OK, I have no idea what this is. Do you have any idea?
YASMIN: I think it might be like a saw sawing through wood. And maybe they're changing the setting of the power or something that makes the sound sound different halfway through.
MOLLY BLOOM: That is a great guess. Let's hear it again.
[BUZZING]
Any different thoughts this time?
YASMIN: I feel like I need a moment to think about this.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Yeah, it sounded almost musical to me. So I'm going to guess that it's like a family of groundhogs, and they're doing vocal warm ups, like lip trills.
YASMIN: Groundhogs make vocal exercises?
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, that's a really good point. I feel like your saw idea is probably better.
YASMIN: Maybe it's one of those hand frothers.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes. OK, I like that idea. We'll come back to this at the end of the show after the credits. We'll hear it again, get another chance to guess, and hear the answer.
YASMIN: So stick around.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: We are making an episode about trends and how things become cool. And it got us wondering, what kind of fad would you like to start? Maybe you think it would be funny if everyone started wearing their shirts inside out. Or you want to make it totally in to paint your fingernails neon orange. What do you think, Yasmin? What trend would you like to start?
YASMIN: I think it's hard to say because some fads can be really wasteful or harmful to the environment, like using lots of plastic.
MOLLY BLOOM: Can we start a fad that's good for the environment?
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Like maybe using recycled fabrics to make stuffed animals or something that people would carry around. Who knows?
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, maybe we can start a fad where people just swap clothes. So instead of going out to buy something new, you're like, oh, my friend and I swapped shirts, so I get to wear her shirt for a while.
YASMIN: That'd be cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: There's so many different trends. You don't have to buy something for it to be a trend. You can start a trend where you just start wearing pencils in your hair every day or something.
YASMIN: Ooh, I have an idea, a trend where everybody exchanges cookies.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes, I am down with that trend. Way better than exchanging shirts because then I get to eat cookies. Smart. Well, listeners, record a description of the trend you'd like to start and send it to us at brainson.org/contact. While you're there, send us your mystery sounds, drawings, and questions.
YASMIN: Like this one.
SIMON: Hi, my name is Simon, and I'm from north Carolina. And why can't kids go to space?
MOLLY BLOOM: You can find answers to questions like these on the Moment of Um podcast, a short dose of facts and fun every weekday. Find Moment of Um and more at brainson.org.
YASMIN: And keep listening.
CREW: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Brains On, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
[JET FLYING BY]
ALIEN: Its alien laundry day. While I wash my nose mufflers and tummy togas, I'll listen to a new podcast. How about Forever Ago, my favorite history podcast?
[MUSIC PLAYING]
YASMIN: Whoa, I was not expecting that to work, or for it to sound this good.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's the DJ Dolo technique.
[HORN BLOWS]
VOICES: Here we go!
DJ DOLO: When I say pizza, you say bagel. Pizza--
YASMIN: Bagel.
ALIEN: Zorp! Signal down. Stay right there, tummy togas. [BEEPING] Must find Forever Ago now.
[FUEL BURNING]
CREW: Listen to Forever Ago wherever you get your podcasts.
[MUSIC PLAYING] Brains On, On, On
YASMIN: You are listening to brains on. I'm Yasmin.
MOLLY BLOOM: And I'm Molly. And we've been filling our brains with the science of salt.
YASMIN: The salt we use in our food is a crystal made of sodium and chlorine.
MOLLY BLOOM: And it comes from two places. We either dig it out of the ground or dry out seawater until only the salt is left.
YASMIN: Our bodies need salt to survive, and we get it by eating and drinking salty things.
MOLLY BLOOM: And just like with other stuff we need, like sugar and fat, our brain sends us happy signals when we taste salty things. But too much salt at once is bad for us.
YASMIN: Now that we know about salt itself, let's talk about how it is used in cooking. There are tons of food that needs salt but aren't really salty themselves.
MOLLY BLOOM: And sometimes you can use salt to get foods ready to be cooked.
YASMIN: We were curious about how all that works, so we invited a special guest to join us in the labber kitchen. Her name is Priya Krishna.
MOLLY BLOOM: Priya is a superstar food journalist and all around kitchen expert. She even wrote a cookbook for kids called Priya's Kitchen Adventures.
[KNOCKING]
Oh, and that's probably her now.
PRIYA KRISHNA: Molly, Yasmin, it's so nice to see you.
YASMIN: Hi, Priya. Welcome to the labber kitchen.
PRIYA KRISHNA: Thanks for having me.
YASMIN: Oh, we're so excited to have you. I have a couple questions. First off, how did you get interested in cooking?
PRIYA KRISHNA: I got interested in cooking because of my mom. She grew up in a kitchen with a mother who hated cooking, really hated. But my mom always loved watching her grandmother cook.
And so when she immigrated to the United States in 1980, she taught herself to cook from her memories of India and from watching television shows from chefs like Julia Child and Jacques Pepin.
And so growing up, I would just sit on the kitchen island and watch her sizzle spices and ghee and chop onions and wash cilantro. And I just became obsessed with cooking just from seeing her.
YASMIN: Did you always like cooking when you were a kid?
PRIYA KRISHNA: Funnily enough, my mom loved having me watch her, but she rarely let me actually cook. I am a lefty. A lot of kitchen equipment is made for right handed people. And so my mom always said it would make her so scared seeing me hold a knife with my left hand.
And so I was really limited to stuff that didn't require chopping or using the oven. So I made a lot of fruit suspended in jell-o and biscuits using pancake mix. That was a lot of my cooking.
YASMIN: Why is salt so important in cooking and baking?
PRIYA KRISHNA: What a great question. I feel like salt is everything in cooking. Think about when you listen to an amazing song. There's the melody. There's the instruments. And then there's the guy who mixes all of those sounds to bring it all together into a really cool song. That's what salt does. It takes all of those components, and it makes it sound cohesive.
YASMIN: How do you know how much salt to put into a recipe?
PRIYA KRISHNA: So recipes might call for certain amounts of salt, but the reality is that everyone has a different preference for salt.
One test that I like to do, that my friend David taught me, was if you put 10 glasses of water in front of you, and one glass has no salt, and one glass has a tablespoon of salt, and then put different amounts in each of those, starting from zero and ending with the tablespoon, and mix it, and drink it, and see what tastes too salty to you, and what tastes just right to you.
So if you like something that's closer to the no-salt side, you're like, oh, I don't like things super salty. If you like something that's the glass of water with the full tablespoon, then you like your food really salty.
And I feel like that'll give you a sense of like, oh, I should probably pare back a little bit, or, oh, I'll probably want more salt than the recipe asked for. There is no perfect amount of salt. There's only the amount that's perfect to you.
YASMIN: Did you do that salt test your friend David recommended?
PRIYA KRISHNA: Yes. I like my food very salty, I learned.
[LAUGHTER]
YASMIN: Good to know. Are there differences between different kinds of salt, and do they taste different?
PRIYA KRISHNA: Yeah. Different kinds of salt will have different shapes and different flavors and also like different salt levels. Certain types of salt are less salty than others.
MOLLY BLOOM: So when a recipe says, use kosher salt. Should you listen to that and only use the salt they're recommending?
PRIYA KRISHNA: I always say, do the salt test. And if a recipe calls for a teaspoon, and your salt test yielded that you don't like things salty, maybe start with half of that amount of salt.
If your salt test yielded that you like things really salty, start with that full teaspoon of salt, and then taste it, and see how you feel. The thing about salt is that you can always add, but you can't take away. So I like to start modest and then keep adding.
YASMIN: Why do sugar and salt taste so good together, even though most people think of them as opposites?
PRIYA KRISHNA: I feel like this is an opposites-attract situation. It's like why you love sour candy. When I bite into sour candy, and it's really sweet, and then you get that really sour flavor, that contrast is just really, really appealing in your mouth.
What's cool is that when you have like a salty, sweet chocolate chip cookie, you're getting that like satisfaction of the sweetness. But you get that salt that makes the sweet taste all that much better.
Just like salt supercharges chicken flavor, salt also supercharges the flavors in a cookie. So it'll make chocolate taste more chocolatey. It'll make maple taste maple-ier. So I feel like salt always belongs in sweet things.
YASMIN: Why did you decide to write a cookbook for kids?
PRIYA KRISHNA: I decided to write a cookbook for kids because when I was a kid, I was just so excited and enthusiastic about cooking. And a lot of the books that I saw, the food was really bland. And it felt like it had been dumbed down for kids, both in terms of the flavors and the ingredient lists.
And obviously, I wasn't fine chopping when I was younger. But I wanted a book that would empower me, that would teach me about different flavors and different cultures, that would get me excited to get in the kitchen.
And so I wrote a book inspired by my travels when I was younger. My mom worked in the airline industry, so we got to travel a lot for work. And so we went to places like Egypt and China and Japan.
And I got so into eating and trying different foods in those countries. And my mom and I would come home, and we'd recreate all the things that we had tasted. So I wanted to take kids along on that journey with me and also really write a cookbook that would expand their minds and make them feel empowered as cooks.
MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome. Priya, you are so fun, and my daughter and I look forward to cooking all the recipes in your cookbook.
PRIYA KRISHNA: Thank you so much.
MOLLY BLOOM: Thanks for stopping by.
PRIYA KRISHNA: Goodbye.
[THEME MUSIC]
YASMIN: Salt is a crystal that we get from dried ocean water or from underground.
MOLLY BLOOM: Because our bodies need salt but can't produce it, we have to eat small amounts of it every so often. To make sure we do that, our brains are hardwired to find it delicious.
YASMIN: Plus, salt makes other foods taste better by boosting their natural flavors.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's it for this episode of Brains On.
YASMIN: This episode was written by--
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
YASMIN: And--
LAUREN HUMBERT: Lauren Humbert.
YASMIN: It was produced by--
ROSIE DUPONT: Rosie Dupont.
YASMIN: Our editors are--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
YASMIN: And--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
YASMIN: Fact checking by--
REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Alex Simpson and Firby Midgley with sound design by--
RACHEL BREES: Rachel Brees.
MOLLY BLOOM: Original theme music by--
MARK SANCHEZ: Mark Sanchez.
YASMIN: We had production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team.
MOLLY BLOOM: Molly bloom.
NICO WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
ANNA WEIGEL: Anna Weigel.
YASMIN: And--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: Beth Pearlman is our executive producer. And the executives in charge of APM studios are Chandra Cavoti and Joanne Griffith. Special thanks to Kim Bardwell, Arnaldo Shimura, and Yasmin's friend, [? Ed ?] [? Tupper. ?]
YASMIN: Brains On is a non-profit public radio program.
MOLLY BLOOM: There are lots of ways to support the show. Join Smarty Pass for bonus episodes and ad-free versions of all of our shows. You can become a Smarty Pass subscriber today for just $5 a month or $45 a year. Or head to branson.org.
YASMIN: While you're there, you can send us mystery sounds, drawings, and questions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Speaking of mystery sounds, Yasmin, are you ready to hear the mystery sound again?
YASMIN: Definitely!
MOLLY BLOOM: Let's hear it.
[BUZZING]
A robot singing, and that's my final guess. What do you think?
YASMIN: Thinking about my answers before, but it might also be one of the gerberators in your sink.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, yeah, those things under your kitchen sink that grind up food when it goes down the drain. They're called garburators in Canada, but sometimes we call them garbage disposals or insinkerators in the US. So what do you think? What's your guess? Garbage disposal, saw, milk frother?
YASMIN: I feel like it's a combination between one of those.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's a brand new machine that you can use as a saw, milk frother, or garbage disposal. It's brand new. I like it.
YASMIN: It's one of those. I'm not sure which.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's one of them. Let's hear the answer.
MARY: My name is Mary, and I'm from Philadelphia, PA, and that was the sound of my electric toothbrush.
YASMIN: Electric toothbrush, come on. I have one of those at home. I knew the sounds felt familiar, but I couldn't place it.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, mystery sounds, they get us every time. That was a tricky one. You're close, though, because you heard a motor going. You heard the motor from the milk frother or the saw.
I was not close at all with the robot singing. But I guess, maybe now when you use your electric toothbrush, you can think of it as a robot singing to you while you brush your teeth.
YASMIN: That reminds me. I need to get new batteries for that.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] See, Brains On, helping you remember your to-do list.
[ELECTRIC TOOTHBRUSH]
Now it's time for the Brain's Honor Roll. These are the incredible kids who keep this show going with their questions, ideas, mystery sounds, drawings, and high fives.
[LISTING HONOR ROLL]
[THEME MUSIC] Brains On.
YASMIN: Thanks for listening.
CHILD 2: Brains On is supported in part by a grant from the National Science Foundation.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Oh, hey, friends. Sanden, here. I'm at Brains On headquarters to sell my pals on my latest genius-level idea, Sanden's salt-speriences. They're going to love it.
[DOORBELL RINGING]
Oh, good. Here comes Molly now. She loves all my schemes-- I mean, genius-level ideas.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sanden, why are you ringing the doorbell? Your keys are literally in your hand.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Why, hey there, neighbor. Do you have a taste for adventure?
MOLLY BLOOM: Of course, I do. My nickname is Molly "Adventure" Bloom. You know that.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Well, then, I'm here to sell you on the ultimate adventure, a fabulous salt experience.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sell me salt? Sanden, we literally have bags of it in the labber kitchen.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Molly, Molly, Molly, Molly, my sweet, innocent, unsalted friend. I said the salt experience. The salt-sperience, if you will. For instance, want to relax by the seaside, but have no time to travel? Try Sanden's and Make Your Own Ocean Kit.
[ZIPPER]
Ta da!
MOLLY BLOOM: A jar of salt water?
SANDEN TOTTEN: I think you mean your own private ocean. Can't you just hear the waves, the seagulls? [IMITATES WAVES CRASHING AND SEAGULLS CALLING] Oh, I could see you're relaxing already, Molly.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sanden, I don't know if-- Or how about our Winter Salt Kit?
SANDEN TOTTEN: Just throw sand and salt in the air, and it's just like it's snowing.
[SALT LANDING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Ugh, gross, mouth full of salt.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Want to hang out with all your cool friends who are in a band, but you don't know how to play any instruments? Well, just bring along your trusty jar of Sanden's Magical Musical Salt and boom!
[SALT SHAKING]
Now, you're a percussionist.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sanden, I have to go get ready to tape a Brains On episode. This has been interesting.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Wait, wait, Molly, I haven't even told you about the best part. You can eat this stuff too, yeah, by the handfuls. See? [GROANS IN DISGUST] That is very salty. [SPITS]
[THEME MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to brains on from APM Studios. I'm Molly Bloom, and my co-host today is Yasmin from Vancouver, British Columbia. Hi, Yasmin.
YASMIN: Hi, Molly.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Today, we're spicing things up with an extra-flavorful subject.
YASMIN: It's the science of salt.
SANDEN TOTTEN: We're answering this question from Anna.
ANNA: I was wondering, why does salt make everything taste so good?
SANDEN TOTTEN: It's hard to imagine life without salt.
YASMIN: Boring, bland pretzels.
MOLLY BLOOM: Forgettable French fries.
YASMIN: Dull, dull pickles.
MOLLY BLOOM: Crave-less casseroles? No, thank you. Salt improves so many foods, it's simply ridiculous. Yasmin, are you more of a salty snack or sweet snack person?
YASMIN: Personally, I think I'm a bit of both, but I don't like overly salty snacks or overly sweet snacks.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, me too. So do you do a lot of cooking at home?
YASMIN: I really like baking, and I'm even doing a science project for the science fair, where I'm going to be making cupcakes and using different egg substitutes. And my whole thing is about if different egg substitutes make a difference in the way a cupcake will bake.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, that's super cool. Well, you'll have to tell me the results because my niece is actually allergic to eggs, so this would be super useful information. That's such a cool experiment. And you've lived in different countries, right?
YASMIN: Yes, I've been back and forth traveling all over the world in my life. Most recently, I lived in Japan. I've been going back and forth between Japan and Canada, really. When I was really little, one years old, I lived in Brazil for a year because my dad's family is from Brazil.
MOLLY BLOOM: So you've had a lot of experience lately with Japanese food and Canadian food. Do you feel like there's a difference between how salt is used in Japanese food versus the food you have when you're in Vancouver?
YASMIN: I feel like in Japanese cuisine, there's lots of salty food, like miso and stuff. But I feel like sugar is used alongside that in quite a few dishes. And I feel like there's a lot of different flavors that in food in Canada I don't find. Even if I go to a Japanese restaurant, I'm like, that's not the same as it tastes in Japan. Why can't you make it the same?
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, I feel like when I have Japanese food, there's just like so many different kinds of saltiness that you experience. The seaweed sheets are salty and soy sauce and the miso. And it's all so delicious.
YASMIN: I love Japanese food.
MOLLY BLOOM: Me too. Now, this episode is making me so hungry.
[AUDIO LOGO]
Brains On!
MOLLY BLOOM: Salt is actually made up of little crystals.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Arr! A crystal and a true treasure. Ahoy.
[MUSIC PLAYING, SEAGULLS CALLING]
YASMIN: Molly, did you invite a pirate ship into the studio?
MOLLY BLOOM: It wasn't me this time, I swear.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Arr, how's it going, mateys?
MOLLY BLOOM: Wait, is that producer Anna Goldfield in a pirate hat and adorable floppy dog ears? This is delightful, though not what I was expecting.
YASMIN: I also did not have this on my bingo card for today.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: I'm a salty sea dog-- get it?-- captain of the finest ship and saltiest crew to ever sail the seven seas. I'm also here to talk about salt and why we love to eat it.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, great. Perfect timing, Anna.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Well, if there's one thing us pirates are known for, it's our impeccable timing and punctuality.
YASMIN: I would have gone for big ships and pirate flags.
MOLLY BLOOM: Or parrots, or eye patches, walking planks.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Yes, but we also have great timing. Look, I brought the Brains On zoom ray so I could show you guys salt up close. I saw Sanden in the hallway, and he offered to sell me some salt for just three easy payments of 39.99, total bargain.
MOLLY BLOOM: Again, we literally have bags of salt in the labber kitchen that you can use for free.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Oh. That's a better idea. And I can check on the batch of soft pretzels I was making earlier.
YASMIN: To the labber kitchen!
Here we are.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Welcome to the labber kitchen, Yasmin.
YASMIN: Wow, it smells amazing in here. There's so many things bubbling away on the stove.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Mark's working on his chili recipe and stewing some prunes. My soft pretzels are in the oven. And I think Bob is trying to develop less flavorful water.
YASMIN: Oh, check out that giant shelf of pickles.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: That's my parade of pickles project. No big deal, but they're really coming along. And here are the bags of good old, extremely free salt. Let's fire up the zoom ray and have a look.
VOICES: Zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom.
YASMIN: Wow, the grains of salt are shaped like tiny cubes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome, right? There's more than one kind of salt, and some look like pyramids or staircases or even snowflakes under a microscope. The salt we use in the kitchen is called sodium chloride, and that name comes from the atoms it's made of.
YASMIN: I've heard of atoms. They're super tiny building blocks that make up everything in the universe.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Sodium chloride is made of two atoms, a sodium atom and a chlorine atom, each hugging each other with their chemical bonds.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, that's cute. And sodium chloride is what we find in everything from kosher salt to Himalayan pink salt to that fancy flaky gray salt.
YASMIN: Is sodium chloride the same stuff that makes the ocean salty?
ANNA GOLDFIELD: It sure is. All the salt that we use in food comes from two places. It's either dug out of the ground or collected from seawater. Either way, it's all still sodium chloride.
YASMIN: So why do we love putting salt in our food?
ANNA GOLDFIELD: It's all in our heads. When you put food in your mouth, your tongue sends signals to your brain about what that stuff is. Your brain takes those signals and translates them. What we experience as taste is that translation.
YASMIN: Every taste? Sweet, sour, bitter, all that jazz?
ANNA GOLDFIELD: I don't know if we can taste jazz, but all tastes are translated by our brain. And that's really important. If our taste buds sense stuff in food that our body needs, our brain goes, heck yeah.
That gives us the feeling that what we're eating is delicious. Stuff that's harmful often tastes very bitter or sharp, and that is our brain telling us, nope, do not eat.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our sense of taste protects us, and since our taste buds and brains like salt, we must need it.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: We do. To work, our brains and bodies need sodium, but we can't make sodium inside our body. Instead, it has to come from the things that we eat and drink.
YASMIN: So we eat things with salt to get the sodium our bodies need?
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Yes, but we also constantly lose salt, mostly through pee. So to keep our brains and bodies happy, we need to eat salty things fairly often. And fun fact, sports drinks actually have a little salt in them. If you're doing sweaty activities, you might need to replace your body's supply of sodium.
MOLLY BLOOM: But how come we don't drink ocean water, then? It's full of salt.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Yes, but definitely not refreshing. That's because there's too much of a good thing. Ocean water has way more salt than our bodies can handle, and drinking a bunch of it would make you feel pretty sick. That's why we don't want to add too much salt to our foods either.
[PING]
My pretzels are done. Arr, help yourselves. Now, if you'll excuse this salty sea dog, the ocean, she calls to me. I'm off to sail around, eat pretzels-- oh, so good-- and sing sea shanties. Anchors away.
YASMIN: Thanks for stopping by, Anna. And please, take the seagulls with you. They're getting feathers everywhere, not to mention all the poop.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Catch you later, shipmates. Let's go, gulls.
[JINGLE]
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, it's time to spice up your day with a little listening challenge. Yasmin, get ready for the--
[WHIMSICAL MUSIC]
Mystery sound.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yasmin, are you ready for the mystery sound?
YASMIN: Yes!
MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome. Here it is.
[BUZZING]
OK, I have no idea what this is. Do you have any idea?
YASMIN: I think it might be like a saw sawing through wood. And maybe they're changing the setting of the power or something that makes the sound sound different halfway through.
MOLLY BLOOM: That is a great guess. Let's hear it again.
[BUZZING]
Any different thoughts this time?
YASMIN: I feel like I need a moment to think about this.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Yeah, it sounded almost musical to me. So I'm going to guess that it's like a family of groundhogs, and they're doing vocal warm ups, like lip trills.
YASMIN: Groundhogs make vocal exercises?
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, that's a really good point. I feel like your saw idea is probably better.
YASMIN: Maybe it's one of those hand frothers.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes. OK, I like that idea. We'll come back to this at the end of the show after the credits. We'll hear it again, get another chance to guess, and hear the answer.
YASMIN: So stick around.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: We are making an episode about trends and how things become cool. And it got us wondering, what kind of fad would you like to start? Maybe you think it would be funny if everyone started wearing their shirts inside out. Or you want to make it totally in to paint your fingernails neon orange. What do you think, Yasmin? What trend would you like to start?
YASMIN: I think it's hard to say because some fads can be really wasteful or harmful to the environment, like using lots of plastic.
MOLLY BLOOM: Can we start a fad that's good for the environment?
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Like maybe using recycled fabrics to make stuffed animals or something that people would carry around. Who knows?
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, maybe we can start a fad where people just swap clothes. So instead of going out to buy something new, you're like, oh, my friend and I swapped shirts, so I get to wear her shirt for a while.
YASMIN: That'd be cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: There's so many different trends. You don't have to buy something for it to be a trend. You can start a trend where you just start wearing pencils in your hair every day or something.
YASMIN: Ooh, I have an idea, a trend where everybody exchanges cookies.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes, I am down with that trend. Way better than exchanging shirts because then I get to eat cookies. Smart. Well, listeners, record a description of the trend you'd like to start and send it to us at brainson.org/contact. While you're there, send us your mystery sounds, drawings, and questions.
YASMIN: Like this one.
SIMON: Hi, my name is Simon, and I'm from north Carolina. And why can't kids go to space?
MOLLY BLOOM: You can find answers to questions like these on the Moment of Um podcast, a short dose of facts and fun every weekday. Find Moment of Um and more at brainson.org.
YASMIN: And keep listening.
CREW: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Brains On, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
[JET FLYING BY]
ALIEN: Its alien laundry day. While I wash my nose mufflers and tummy togas, I'll listen to a new podcast. How about Forever Ago, my favorite history podcast?
[MUSIC PLAYING]
YASMIN: Whoa, I was not expecting that to work, or for it to sound this good.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's the DJ Dolo technique.
[HORN BLOWS]
VOICES: Here we go!
DJ DOLO: When I say pizza, you say bagel. Pizza--
YASMIN: Bagel.
ALIEN: Zorp! Signal down. Stay right there, tummy togas. [BEEPING] Must find Forever Ago now.
[FUEL BURNING]
CREW: Listen to Forever Ago wherever you get your podcasts.
[MUSIC PLAYING] Brains On, On, On
YASMIN: You are listening to brains on. I'm Yasmin.
MOLLY BLOOM: And I'm Molly. And we've been filling our brains with the science of salt.
YASMIN: The salt we use in our food is a crystal made of sodium and chlorine.
MOLLY BLOOM: And it comes from two places. We either dig it out of the ground or dry out seawater until only the salt is left.
YASMIN: Our bodies need salt to survive, and we get it by eating and drinking salty things.
MOLLY BLOOM: And just like with other stuff we need, like sugar and fat, our brain sends us happy signals when we taste salty things. But too much salt at once is bad for us.
YASMIN: Now that we know about salt itself, let's talk about how it is used in cooking. There are tons of food that needs salt but aren't really salty themselves.
MOLLY BLOOM: And sometimes you can use salt to get foods ready to be cooked.
YASMIN: We were curious about how all that works, so we invited a special guest to join us in the labber kitchen. Her name is Priya Krishna.
MOLLY BLOOM: Priya is a superstar food journalist and all around kitchen expert. She even wrote a cookbook for kids called Priya's Kitchen Adventures.
[KNOCKING]
Oh, and that's probably her now.
PRIYA KRISHNA: Molly, Yasmin, it's so nice to see you.
YASMIN: Hi, Priya. Welcome to the labber kitchen.
PRIYA KRISHNA: Thanks for having me.
YASMIN: Oh, we're so excited to have you. I have a couple questions. First off, how did you get interested in cooking?
PRIYA KRISHNA: I got interested in cooking because of my mom. She grew up in a kitchen with a mother who hated cooking, really hated. But my mom always loved watching her grandmother cook.
And so when she immigrated to the United States in 1980, she taught herself to cook from her memories of India and from watching television shows from chefs like Julia Child and Jacques Pepin.
And so growing up, I would just sit on the kitchen island and watch her sizzle spices and ghee and chop onions and wash cilantro. And I just became obsessed with cooking just from seeing her.
YASMIN: Did you always like cooking when you were a kid?
PRIYA KRISHNA: Funnily enough, my mom loved having me watch her, but she rarely let me actually cook. I am a lefty. A lot of kitchen equipment is made for right handed people. And so my mom always said it would make her so scared seeing me hold a knife with my left hand.
And so I was really limited to stuff that didn't require chopping or using the oven. So I made a lot of fruit suspended in jell-o and biscuits using pancake mix. That was a lot of my cooking.
YASMIN: Why is salt so important in cooking and baking?
PRIYA KRISHNA: What a great question. I feel like salt is everything in cooking. Think about when you listen to an amazing song. There's the melody. There's the instruments. And then there's the guy who mixes all of those sounds to bring it all together into a really cool song. That's what salt does. It takes all of those components, and it makes it sound cohesive.
YASMIN: How do you know how much salt to put into a recipe?
PRIYA KRISHNA: So recipes might call for certain amounts of salt, but the reality is that everyone has a different preference for salt.
One test that I like to do, that my friend David taught me, was if you put 10 glasses of water in front of you, and one glass has no salt, and one glass has a tablespoon of salt, and then put different amounts in each of those, starting from zero and ending with the tablespoon, and mix it, and drink it, and see what tastes too salty to you, and what tastes just right to you.
So if you like something that's closer to the no-salt side, you're like, oh, I don't like things super salty. If you like something that's the glass of water with the full tablespoon, then you like your food really salty.
And I feel like that'll give you a sense of like, oh, I should probably pare back a little bit, or, oh, I'll probably want more salt than the recipe asked for. There is no perfect amount of salt. There's only the amount that's perfect to you.
YASMIN: Did you do that salt test your friend David recommended?
PRIYA KRISHNA: Yes. I like my food very salty, I learned.
[LAUGHTER]
YASMIN: Good to know. Are there differences between different kinds of salt, and do they taste different?
PRIYA KRISHNA: Yeah. Different kinds of salt will have different shapes and different flavors and also like different salt levels. Certain types of salt are less salty than others.
MOLLY BLOOM: So when a recipe says, use kosher salt. Should you listen to that and only use the salt they're recommending?
PRIYA KRISHNA: I always say, do the salt test. And if a recipe calls for a teaspoon, and your salt test yielded that you don't like things salty, maybe start with half of that amount of salt.
If your salt test yielded that you like things really salty, start with that full teaspoon of salt, and then taste it, and see how you feel. The thing about salt is that you can always add, but you can't take away. So I like to start modest and then keep adding.
YASMIN: Why do sugar and salt taste so good together, even though most people think of them as opposites?
PRIYA KRISHNA: I feel like this is an opposites-attract situation. It's like why you love sour candy. When I bite into sour candy, and it's really sweet, and then you get that really sour flavor, that contrast is just really, really appealing in your mouth.
What's cool is that when you have like a salty, sweet chocolate chip cookie, you're getting that like satisfaction of the sweetness. But you get that salt that makes the sweet taste all that much better.
Just like salt supercharges chicken flavor, salt also supercharges the flavors in a cookie. So it'll make chocolate taste more chocolatey. It'll make maple taste maple-ier. So I feel like salt always belongs in sweet things.
YASMIN: Why did you decide to write a cookbook for kids?
PRIYA KRISHNA: I decided to write a cookbook for kids because when I was a kid, I was just so excited and enthusiastic about cooking. And a lot of the books that I saw, the food was really bland. And it felt like it had been dumbed down for kids, both in terms of the flavors and the ingredient lists.
And obviously, I wasn't fine chopping when I was younger. But I wanted a book that would empower me, that would teach me about different flavors and different cultures, that would get me excited to get in the kitchen.
And so I wrote a book inspired by my travels when I was younger. My mom worked in the airline industry, so we got to travel a lot for work. And so we went to places like Egypt and China and Japan.
And I got so into eating and trying different foods in those countries. And my mom and I would come home, and we'd recreate all the things that we had tasted. So I wanted to take kids along on that journey with me and also really write a cookbook that would expand their minds and make them feel empowered as cooks.
MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome. Priya, you are so fun, and my daughter and I look forward to cooking all the recipes in your cookbook.
PRIYA KRISHNA: Thank you so much.
MOLLY BLOOM: Thanks for stopping by.
PRIYA KRISHNA: Goodbye.
[THEME MUSIC]
YASMIN: Salt is a crystal that we get from dried ocean water or from underground.
MOLLY BLOOM: Because our bodies need salt but can't produce it, we have to eat small amounts of it every so often. To make sure we do that, our brains are hardwired to find it delicious.
YASMIN: Plus, salt makes other foods taste better by boosting their natural flavors.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's it for this episode of Brains On.
YASMIN: This episode was written by--
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
YASMIN: And--
LAUREN HUMBERT: Lauren Humbert.
YASMIN: It was produced by--
ROSIE DUPONT: Rosie Dupont.
YASMIN: Our editors are--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
YASMIN: And--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
YASMIN: Fact checking by--
REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Alex Simpson and Firby Midgley with sound design by--
RACHEL BREES: Rachel Brees.
MOLLY BLOOM: Original theme music by--
MARK SANCHEZ: Mark Sanchez.
YASMIN: We had production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team.
MOLLY BLOOM: Molly bloom.
NICO WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
ANNA WEIGEL: Anna Weigel.
YASMIN: And--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: Beth Pearlman is our executive producer. And the executives in charge of APM studios are Chandra Cavoti and Joanne Griffith. Special thanks to Kim Bardwell, Arnaldo Shimura, and Yasmin's friend, [? Ed ?] [? Tupper. ?]
YASMIN: Brains On is a non-profit public radio program.
MOLLY BLOOM: There are lots of ways to support the show. Join Smarty Pass for bonus episodes and ad-free versions of all of our shows. You can become a Smarty Pass subscriber today for just $5 a month or $45 a year. Or head to branson.org.
YASMIN: While you're there, you can send us mystery sounds, drawings, and questions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Speaking of mystery sounds, Yasmin, are you ready to hear the mystery sound again?
YASMIN: Definitely!
MOLLY BLOOM: Let's hear it.
[BUZZING]
A robot singing, and that's my final guess. What do you think?
YASMIN: Thinking about my answers before, but it might also be one of the gerberators in your sink.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, yeah, those things under your kitchen sink that grind up food when it goes down the drain. They're called garburators in Canada, but sometimes we call them garbage disposals or insinkerators in the US. So what do you think? What's your guess? Garbage disposal, saw, milk frother?
YASMIN: I feel like it's a combination between one of those.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's a brand new machine that you can use as a saw, milk frother, or garbage disposal. It's brand new. I like it.
YASMIN: It's one of those. I'm not sure which.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's one of them. Let's hear the answer.
MARY: My name is Mary, and I'm from Philadelphia, PA, and that was the sound of my electric toothbrush.
YASMIN: Electric toothbrush, come on. I have one of those at home. I knew the sounds felt familiar, but I couldn't place it.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, mystery sounds, they get us every time. That was a tricky one. You're close, though, because you heard a motor going. You heard the motor from the milk frother or the saw.
I was not close at all with the robot singing. But I guess, maybe now when you use your electric toothbrush, you can think of it as a robot singing to you while you brush your teeth.
YASMIN: That reminds me. I need to get new batteries for that.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] See, Brains On, helping you remember your to-do list.
[ELECTRIC TOOTHBRUSH]
Now it's time for the Brain's Honor Roll. These are the incredible kids who keep this show going with their questions, ideas, mystery sounds, drawings, and high fives.
[LISTING HONOR ROLL]
[THEME MUSIC] Brains On.
YASMIN: Thanks for listening.
Transcription services provided by 3Play Media.
