Forever Ago- Hip Hop History
APM Studios
Rap music is one of the most popular genres of music in the world today. But where did it all begin? Join hosts Joy and Savion as they go back to the 1970s to hear two stories about how rap music started. Learn how one teenager's back-to-school party brought together beats and rhyming to form a new style of music. And find out how a female record producer introduced rap music to the radio for the first time. All that plus a fresh First Things First. Hip hop and you don’t stop!
Audio Transcript
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SAVION: Hey, Joy.
JOY DOLO: Savion, I'm so happy you're here! Savion in the house!
[DJ AIR HORN]
SAVION: Are you working on your DJ skills?
JOY DOLO: How'd you know? Was it my sweet turntables [RECORD SCRUBBING] or the fact I'm holding one headphone up to my ear, or my brand new giant gold necklace that says DJ Dolo? [CHIME]
SAVION: Hmm. All of the above.
JOY DOLO: Well, it's true. I already have a signature name-- DJ Dolo.
[DJ AIR HORN]
DJ Dolo!
[RECORD SCRUBBING]
But I still need a signature DJ style. That's why I'm trying out new techniques.
SAVION: What kind of techniques?
JOY DOLO: Well, how you usually spin records on a turntable?
SAVION: You mean those flat black disks? Yeah, I've heard of those.
JOY DOLO: Well, playing records is so predictable. Instead, I'm seeing what it sounds like when I play other flat, round stuff-- frisbees, sun hats, baloney, a dinner plate, a cheese pizza. Oh, maybe a sesame bagel.
SAVION: What about pizza bagels?
JOY DOLO: Genius. Lucky for you, I always keep an emergency pizza bagel in my pocket. Let's see how it sounds.
[FUNK MUSIC]
SAVION: Whoa. I was not expecting that to work or for it to sound this good.
JOY DOLO: That's the DJ Dolo technique.
[DJ AIR HORN]
DJ Dolo! When I say pizza, you say bagel. Pizza.
SAVION: Bagel.
JOY DOLO: Pizza.
SAVION: Bagel.
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY DOLO: You're listening to Forever Ago from APM Studios. I'm your host, Joy Dolo, and I'm here with Savion from Oakland, California.
SAVION: Hi, Joy.
JOY DOLO: Today, we're talking about the history of rap music, one of the most popular kinds of music in the world.
SAVION: We were inspired by this question from Parker.
PARKER: Hi, my name is Parker, and I'm from Sudbury, Ontario. My question is, where did rap music come from?
JOY DOLO: Thanks for that great question, Parker. Savion, have you ever listened to rap music?
SAVION: I have listened to it. It's like one of my favorite kinds of music.
JOY DOLO: Oh, really? Do you have a favorite artist?
SAVION: I like Lupe Fiasco and Tupac.
JOY DOLO: Oh, wow. That's pretty cool. Do you have a favorite song?
SAVION: I like "Kick Push" by Lupe Fiasco.
JOY DOLO: OK, cool, cool. That's cool. I might have to look that up because-- OK, so here's my deal. Like, I listen to a lot of different kinds of music, and so I know one artist in each genre.
SAVION: Oh.
JOY DOLO: If that makes sense. So I know who Tupac is. I don't know who Lupe Fiasco is. Please don't judge me, Savion.
SAVION: Hm.
JOY DOLO: Do you listen to other types of music or other genres?
SAVION: I listen to rock music.
JOY DOLO: OK. What are some of your other favorite artists?
SAVION: The Score, Imagine Dragons, Blacklite District.
JOY DOLO: Cool. Do you have a favorite song that you're listening to right now or just in general?
SAVION: I like "Army" by Zayde Wolf.
JOY DOLO: Would it be too much for me to ask you how it goes, or like what are some of the lyrics?
SAVION: I think I remember some of it.
(SINGING) The time is now
Going kamikaze, won't back down, yeah
JOY DOLO: Yeah! That rock's! Rock and roll! Savion, we got to start a band, man.
SAVION: That would be cool.
JOY DOLO: Would you want to be in a band?
SAVION: Actually, yeah, I think so.
JOY DOLO: Oh, yeah, that's awesome. That is so cool. If you could make up your own genre of music, what would it sound like.
SAVION: I think it'd be kind of like rock and electronic mixed together.
JOY DOLO: Like, guitars and maybe like a synth of some kind?
SAVION: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Would it have a specific name, like this genre of music?
SAVION: I don't know. Maybe like electro rock.
JOY DOLO: Ah, yeah, I like that-- electro rock. Electrock. Electrock.
SAVION: Oh, yeah.
JOY DOLO: Like combining it, you know?
SAVION: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: That's pretty cool. I like that. Maybe I can be in your band.
SAVION: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Electrock band. Anyway, back to rap music.
SAVION: Rapping is when you rhyme words over a beat, keeping the rhythm of the music.
JOY DOLO: There are so many types of music that influenced rap, from the Blues to jazz and spoken word poetry. Before rap was its own kind of music, there were a lot of examples that sounded like an early version of rapping, like this 1940s song from The Jubalaires.
[THE JUBALAIRES, "NOAH"]
- Stop, be still, and listen to me
When God walked down to the brandy sea
He declared that the evil descend from man
And then he decided to destroy the land
He spoke to Noah and Noah stopped
He said, Noah, I want you to build me an ark
I want you to build it three cubits long
I want you to build it big and strong
I want it 30 high and 50 wide so it feels
SAVION: There's also this spoken word poem set to music from 1971. It was written by Gil Scott-Heron.
[GIL SCOTT-HERON, "THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED"]
- The revolution will not be televised
The revolution will not be brought to you by Xerox in four parts without commercial interruptions
The revolution will not show you pictures of Nixon blowing a bugle and leading a charge by John Mitchell, General Abrams, and Spiro Agnew
To eat hog maws confiscated from a Harlem sanctuary
The revolution will not be televised
JOY DOLO: It's hard to say when rapping was officially invented. First in history can be hard to pinpoint, as we know in First Things First, especially when we're talking about music, language, and art.
SAVION: Sometimes pinpointing history is like trying to pin jelly to the wall.
JOY DOLO: Precisely. And even though it's tough to know exactly when rap first started, there's still so much history to explore. Today, we're going to look at two standout moments in rap music history. First, how one back to school party brought beats and rhymes together. And later, how one song brought rap music to the world.
SAVION: Our first story starts in August 1973.
NARRATOR: Story number one.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: Back in the 1970s, Funk music was topping the charts and bell bottom pants were everywhere.
SAVION: The card game UNO had just been invented, and Disney World opened in Florida.
JOY DOLO: And in New York City, many communities were struggling, especially in the Bronx. In the 1970s, the Bronx was one of the poorest parts of the city.
SAVION: Lots of families barely had enough money to buy food or pay rent.
JOY DOLO: It was hard to find work and schools were shutting down.
SAVION: For the kids living in the Bronx, there wasn't much to do.
JOY DOLO: But young people were still getting creative and finding ways to have fun.
SAVION: Which brings us to Cindy Campbell.
JOY DOLO: In the summer of 1973, Cindy was 15 years old. She wanted new clothes for the upcoming school year, but she didn't have the cash to just go and buy a new wardrobe. So she decided to throw a party to raise money.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SAVION: Cindy got to work. She made flyers on index cards and left them all around the neighborhood.
JOY DOLO: She reserved the community room in her family's apartment building, bought hot dogs and soda. And most importantly, she asked her older brother Clive to be in charge of music at the party. Clive was a DJ and his nickname was DJ Kool Herc.
SAVION: DJ Kool Herc was 18 years old at the time. And he loved to play music.
JOY DOLO: Remember, this was back in the '70s, way before streaming music, CDs, even before cassette tapes. People used to play records.
SAVION: Records look like big flat disks, and they're about the same size as a pizza.
JOY DOLO: They're usually black and have tiny circular lines on them called grooves.
SAVION: Yeah, they look like tree rings.
JOY DOLO: To play music, you put the records on a machine called a turntable, which spins the record around and reads the music in the record's grooves, sending it to your speakers.
SAVION: DJ Kool Herc had a lot of records. He grew up in Jamaica and loved reggae music, but he also liked other kinds of music, like Funk.
JOY DOLO: So Herc brought his records to the party, plus a speaker system and turntables to play them. And to top it off, Herc and Cindy hung a mirrored disco ball from the ceiling to really set that party vibe.
SAVION: Remember, Cindy wanted to raise money to buy school clothes, so she charged up to $0.50 for anyone who came to the party.
JOY DOLO: People started flooding into the party to see Herc DJ. As the story goes, Herc noticed people really liked dancing during the breakdown of songs. The breakdown is a special word for when the song changes for a little bit, maybe 30 seconds or so.
SAVION: Breakdowns are little moments where the song takes a break from its usual pattern.
JOY DOLO: Like if the song has a singer, maybe the singer stops singing, and you just hear the instruments for a bit.
SAVION: Or maybe the rhythm of the song changes.
JOY DOLO: Usually, these breakdowns are just instrumental. During one, you might only hear a few instruments, just the drums and bass. Let's listen to a breakdown during the song "Apache" by the Incredible Bongo Band.
[INCREDIBLE BONGO BAND, "APACHE"]
Did you hear how the song switched up? It went from that guitar bit--
[VOCALIZING]
--to just bongos and drums.
[VOCALIZING]
That bongo and drum solo is a breakdown. Have you ever heard that song before, Savion?
SAVION: I don't think so.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, that's an old one, but that's an example of a breakdown.
SAVION: It just makes you want to dance.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, and that's exactly what DJ Kool Herc noticed, too. So to keep the party going, Herc invented a new technique on the turntables inspired by song breakdowns like the one we just listened to.
SAVION: Herc set up two turntables.
JOY DOLO: He would play a drum breakdown on one turntable.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SAVION: And as soon as one breakdown finished, he would switch to the other turntable and play another breakdown.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: Herc bounced back and forth between records, creating an endless loop of breakdowns. He called this technique the merry-go-round.
SAVION: People at the party went wild for this. Some of them even started breakdancing.
JOY DOLO: Breakdancing, also called breaking, is a type of dance that uses moves similar to the stuff you see in gymnastics and martial arts. There's quick steps, handstands, and even head spins. It was a new kind of dance back in the 1970s.
SAVION: Just like DJing was a new kind of music. People were finding so many new ways to make art. But back to the party.
JOY DOLO: DJ Kool Herc was playing loops of breakbeats. People were breakdancing, and to add to the fun, Herc took a microphone and started shouting out people.
SAVION: If he saw a friend in the crowd, he'd call out their name.
JOY DOLO: DJ Kool Herc's friend, DJ Coke La Rock also started doing shoutouts and making up rhymes over Herc's looping breakdowns, like "rock and you don't stop."
SAVION: DJ Coke La Rock was rapping.
JOY DOLO: The crowd went wild!
[CHEERING]
SAVION: The party was unforgettable.
JOY DOLO: And for many music historians, that legendary party on August 11, 1973, marks the beginning of beats and rhyming coming together in a way no one had heard before-- the birth of rap music as we know it.
SAVION: It was revolutionary. Teenagers were inventing a whole new kind of music without playing any kind of instruments.
JOY DOLO: Instead, they were using music that already existed on records to create beats of their own. People were rhyming over these beats to create rap music or dancing to them to create breakdancing. They were inventing new art and celebrating, despite the difficult world around them.
SAVION: And it all started with teenagers like Cindy Campbell, DJ Kool Herc, and DJ Coke La Rock.
JOY DOLO: But that was just one party. How did rap go from the Bronx to a worldwide obsession? Well, there's one song that put rap music on the map. But before we get into that, I think it's time for a doo-doo-doo-doo breakdown. And by breakdown, I mean a little break because it's time for--
CREW: First Things First!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: So this is the game where we take three things from history and try to put them in order of which came first, second, and most recent in time. And today's three things are three essentials to rap music-- turntables, those machines that play records, microphones, and drum machines, which are machines that you can use to make drum beats. So which of those three do you think came first, which came second, and which came most recently in history?
SAVION: I think microphones came first.
JOY DOLO: OK. And what about drum machines?
SAVION: OK, so I think it looks kind of high tech, but not too high tech, so I think that's second.
JOY DOLO: OK, so drum machines second.
SAVION: And then the turntables are last.
JOY DOLO: All right. So we have microphones and then drum machines and then turntables. Why do you think microphones is first?
SAVION: They seem like the least advanced. I mean, we still use them, but like-- well, I guess I'm kind of picturing like the kind of microphones that you hold, not the ones that we're using right now.
JOY DOLO: That makes sense from a long time. And then turntables, I mean, we were just talking about them. So, I mean, they do seem like they could be like most recently--
SAVION: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: --invented. Those are solid guesses. We'll hear the answers at the end of the episode right after the credits.
SAVION: So stick around.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: We're working on an episode all about how whales communicate. And we want to know, if you could communicate with any type of animal, which would you want to talk with and why? Savion, what do you think?
SAVION: I think I'd want to talk with some kind of bird or something, and then it could get me like dinner or something.
JOY DOLO: A bird will get you dinner? I love that.
SAVION: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Like through a drive-through?
SAVION: No, swoop down, get like a fish or something, and then I'll cook it.
JOY DOLO: OK, all right. Yeah. You can make me some fish, too. Listeners, record yourself explaining what kind of animal you'd like to be able to communicate with and send it to us at foreverago.org/contact. And while you're there, you can send us episode ideas, questions, and drawings, like a picture of me DJing with pizza bagels.
SAVION: So keep listening.
CREW: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Forever Ago, we know you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
[JET ENGINE]
SUBJECT: Forever Ago, I'm their biggest fan. I also love Smash Boom Best, a fun debate podcast for kids and families. Listen, I will play you Smash Boom Best. You will love.
[BEEPING, GENTLE MELODY]
SUBJECT: To refresh your memory, The Ugly Duckling goes like this. A bunch of duck eggs hatch and the cute little ducklings go, quack, quack, quack!
[DUCKLINGS QUACKING]
Mother Duck is super happy with her eggs, when crack, the last one explodes. And out comes this--
[BEEPING]
SUBJECT: Zorp! Where did the signal go?
[BEEPING]
Must find Smash Boom Best now!
[ENGINE ROARING]
SUBJECT: Listen to Smash Boom Best wherever you get your podcasts.
[LIVELY TUNE]
JOY: You're listening to Forever Ago. I'm Joy.
SAVION: And I'm Savion.
JOY: And today we're talking about the history of rap. We just heard how a group of teenagers in The Bronx threw a raging party that marked the beginning of rap music.
SAVION: Cindy Campbell threw the party to raise money for new school clothes.
JOY: Cindy's brother, DJ Kool Herc, played loops of breakdowns, the instrumental breaks in songs to make the crowds go wild.
SAVION: And their friend Coke La Rock helped hype up the crowds by shouting out his friends and rhyming over Herc's beat.
JOY: The party was so successful that Herc kept DJing more parties over the next few years.
SAVION: A lot of times, the parties were outside, either in a park or even in the streets.
JOY: Sometimes Herc would use streetlamps to power his DJ sets, plugging his equipment into outlets at the lamp's base. People would get together, break dance, and just have fun.
SAVION: Herc's DJing inspired a lot of other young people in his neighborhood.
JOY: Soon, his music and merry-go-round technique of playing loops of breakdowns started spreading across The Bronx, then to other neighborhoods, then across New York City.
SAVION: Even though rap music was spreading across the city, you could only hear it played live by DJs.
JOY: Yeah, this music was at parties or gatherings outside. Nobody was really recording it, and nobody played it on the radio.
SAVION: But that was all about to change with one song and one visionary woman.
JOY: Which brings us to [DJ AIR HORN] story number two! [TURNTABLE SCRATCHING]
SAVION: Joy, I got to say, your DJ skills are just getting better and better.
JOY: Oh, I think, Savion. I've been [TURNTABLE SCRATCHING] focusing on my hobbies and putting in the work. [TURNTABLE SCRATCHING] Practice makes perfect. [DJ AIR HORN]
SAVION: For our next story, we're going to stay in the 1970s.
JOY: That's when a type of music called "disco" ruled the airwaves. Think spinning disco mirror balls, light up dance floors, and songs like "Stayin' Alive" by the Bee Gees.
[BEE GEES, "STAYIN' ALIVE"] --everybody shakin'
And we're stayin' alive, stayin' alive
Ah, ah, ah, ah
Stayin' alive, stayin' alive
Ah, ah, ah, ah
Stayin' alive
Oh, when you walk
SAVION: People weren't listening to rap music on the radio, at least not yet.
SUBJECT: But that all changed because of Sylvia Robinson.
SAVION: Sylvia was a record producer in New Jersey. She started her own record company called Sugar Hill Records.
JOY: Unfortunately, back in 1979, Sylvia's record company was struggling.
(AS SLYVIA) Think, Sylvia. Think. What could save the company?
SAVION: Sylvia came up with the perfect solution when she went to her niece's birthday party.
JOY: And she saw someone rapping.
(AS SYLVIA) That's it. I'll make a record out of this.
So Sylvia got to work. With the help of her son, Sylvia found three rappers, Big Bank Hank, Master Gee, and Wonder Mike.
SAVION: She put them together into a musical group and called them the Sugarhill Gang, named after her record company.
JOY: Sylvia had her new group sing over a popular funk track called "Good Times" by Chic.
[CHIC, "GOOD TIMES]
(SINGING) Good times
These are the good times
Leave your cares behind
These are the good times
JOY: The trio rapped over this track for a whopping 15 minutes straight, and they recorded it in just one take, meaning they didn't stop to rerecord any of the parts.
SAVION: But they cut it down to about 7 minutes for the radio and they called it "Rapper's Delight."
JOY: Here's a clip of the song.
[SUGARHILL GANG, "RAPPER'S DELIGHT"] A with a hip-hop, the hippie to the hippie
The hip, hip-hop and you don't stop the rockin'
To the bang-bang boogie, say up jump the boogie
To the rhythm of the boogie, the beat
I said, "A Hank, a can ya rock?
Can ya rock to the rhythm that just don't stop?
A can ya hip me to the shoobie doo?"
I said, "A come on, make, make the people move"
I go toot the horns and then ring the bell
JOY: Hey, Savion, what do you think of that song?
SAVION: I like it.
SUBJECT: Do you think you could do your own rhymes like that?
SAVION: No.
JOY: Yeah, me neither. Actually, maybe I could. Maybe I would. Or maybe I should. Um, um, um, um--
(RAPPING) These pencils are made of wood.
[LAUGHTER]
Gosh, I'm so bad. We'll keep it to the professionals.
[LAUGHTER]
"Rapper's Delight" was a smash hit. You could tell because in lots of neighborhoods, it was everywhere. It seemed like every bus, train, car radio, and boombox was playing that song.
SAVION: It was the first rap song to break the Billboard's Top 40.
JOY: And went on to sell over 14 million copies.
JOY: Now people could turn on the radio and hear rap music, which introduced the genre to so many more listeners.
JOY: The song was so successful, Sylvia started signing more rap artists like the group Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five. You might have heard of their song "The Message."
[GRANDMASTER FLASH AND THE FURIOUS FIVE, "THE MESSAGE] So don't push me 'cause I'm close to the edge
I'm trying not to lose my head
Ah, huh-huh, huh, huh
It's like a jungle sometimes
It makes me wonder how I keep from going under
Huh, ah huh-huh, huh, huh
It's like a jungle sometimes
It makes me wonder how I keep from going under
Huh. ah huh-huh, huh, huh
JOY: Eventually, more and more record labels started signing more and more artists, and rap music exploded into the hugely popular genre it is today.
SAVION: "Rapper's Delight" brought rap music from parties and parks in New York to radio stations across the world.
JOY: That's right, and it all started with young people in The Bronx who were getting creative and finding ways to have fun despite living through a really difficult time in the city.
SAVION: Those kids were truly innovative.
JOY: Think about it. How cool is it that you can create rap music from other types of music?
SAVION: Right, just like how DJ Kool Herc created a new sound just using the records he had around.
JOY: And then you add even more layers when you start rapping? You know, it really reminds me of when you make a collage.
SAVION: I've heard of that. That's when you cut out different things from magazines or books or drawing and glue it all together.
JOY: That's right, and it's taking bits and pieces of something that already exists and putting it together to make something completely new. Rap music does the same thing.
SAVION: And that's thanks to so many artists and visionaries over the decades.
JOY: Yeah, people like Cindy Campbell, DJ Kool Herc, DJ Coke La Rock, and music producer Sylvia Robinson.
SAVION: Plus inspiration from all different kinds of music and performance like jazz, funk, and even spoken word poetry.
JOY: If you really think about it, rap music is a mashup of so many amazing combinations, just like a--
MAN (VOICEOVER): Pizza bagel!
[DJ AIR HORN] We love ending with a metaphor. [DJ AIR HORN] DJ Dolo! [DJ AIR HORN]
SAVION: Drop that bagel beat.
[DISCO BEAT]
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY: This episode was written by--
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
JOY: And produced by--
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
JOY: Our editors are--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
JOY: And--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
JOY: Fact-checking by--
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
JOY: Engineering help from Brian Matheson and Alex Simpson. With sound design by--
RACHEL BRIESE: Rachel Briese.
JOY: Original theme music by--
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
JOY: We had additional production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team--
MOLLY BLOOM: Molly Bloom.
ROSIE DUPONT: Rosie DuPont.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
LAUREN HUMPERT: Lauren Humpert.
JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
ANNA WEGEL: Anna Weggel.
JOY: And--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
JOY: Beth Pearlman is our executive producer, and the executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Special thanks to Heather Bowser and Adam [? DeWolfe, ?] [? Chernor, ?] Kalif, Desmond, and [? Kamaria. ?] And if you want access to ad-free episodes and special bonus content, subscribe to our Smarty Pass.
[THEME MUSIC]
OK, Savion, are you ready to hear the answers to First Things First?
SAVION: Yep.
JOY: All right. So just a reminder, first, you said microphones. Second, you said drum machine. And third, you said turntables, right?
SAVION: Mm-hmm.
JOY: All right. Drum machine, drum roll, please. [TRILLING TONGUE] One day, they're going to use my drum roll. But I don't think it'll be any time soon. All right. Oh, man, this was a tough one. We had some things-- we had the right intention. I'll tell you that right now. First up, we had turntables. That was actually the oldest one in history. Yeah, and that one is from 1857. Whoa!
The earliest turntable-like device was invented by a Frenchman named Édouard-Léon Scott de Martinville. It was called the "phonautograph," and it was the first machine to record sound. The phonautograph would pick up sound vibrations, which moved the needle back and forth, tracing squiggling lines onto glass. Oh, interesting. So that was first. That was 1857.
And then next up, we had the microphone, and that was 1877. So lots of people were inventing microphone-like devices around the 1850s and 1860s. But German inventor Emile Berliner is often credited for inventing the first modern microphone back in 1877. So Emile's microphone was used to make the sounds in telephones louder and easier to hear.
And without Emil's invention, the telephone probably wouldn't have become a household object. [GASPS] Emile, thank you so much.
SAVION: Yes, thank you.
JOY: All right, and last but not least is the drum machine, and that was invented in 1930. Whoa! So the first drum machine was invented by Leon Theremin in 1930. He called it the "rhythmicon," and it looked like a keyboard. You could play different rhythms with different pitches, but it was notoriously difficult to use. It would take 50 more years for the 808 drum machine to be invented, and that's one of the most influential instruments in rap music.
Oh, and a side note, Leon Theremin also invented an instrument called the "theremin." It's an electric musical instrument that sounds like an alien spaceship. Have you ever played a keyboard, Savion? Like that, can change different sounds and stuff?
SAVION: Yeah, my old school, we had a keyboard that we could play for breaks and stuff.
JOY: Yeah, there used to be one that I played that you can change. It sounds like a voice saying a certain thing like a "la, la, la." And then when you do it all together, it sounds like people singing. I always thought that was pretty cool. Were you surprised by any of these answers?
SAVION: Yeah. I thought the drum machines to be in the first two.
JOY: Yeah, yeah. I thought of it more of like something that was invented recently, but 1930 is still a pretty long time ago.
SAVION: Mm-hmm.
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY: Join us next week for a new episode, all about whales.
SAVION: Thanks for listening.
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY DOLO: Savion, I'm so happy you're here! Savion in the house!
[DJ AIR HORN]
SAVION: Are you working on your DJ skills?
JOY DOLO: How'd you know? Was it my sweet turntables [RECORD SCRUBBING] or the fact I'm holding one headphone up to my ear, or my brand new giant gold necklace that says DJ Dolo? [CHIME]
SAVION: Hmm. All of the above.
JOY DOLO: Well, it's true. I already have a signature name-- DJ Dolo.
[DJ AIR HORN]
DJ Dolo!
[RECORD SCRUBBING]
But I still need a signature DJ style. That's why I'm trying out new techniques.
SAVION: What kind of techniques?
JOY DOLO: Well, how you usually spin records on a turntable?
SAVION: You mean those flat black disks? Yeah, I've heard of those.
JOY DOLO: Well, playing records is so predictable. Instead, I'm seeing what it sounds like when I play other flat, round stuff-- frisbees, sun hats, baloney, a dinner plate, a cheese pizza. Oh, maybe a sesame bagel.
SAVION: What about pizza bagels?
JOY DOLO: Genius. Lucky for you, I always keep an emergency pizza bagel in my pocket. Let's see how it sounds.
[FUNK MUSIC]
SAVION: Whoa. I was not expecting that to work or for it to sound this good.
JOY DOLO: That's the DJ Dolo technique.
[DJ AIR HORN]
DJ Dolo! When I say pizza, you say bagel. Pizza.
SAVION: Bagel.
JOY DOLO: Pizza.
SAVION: Bagel.
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY DOLO: You're listening to Forever Ago from APM Studios. I'm your host, Joy Dolo, and I'm here with Savion from Oakland, California.
SAVION: Hi, Joy.
JOY DOLO: Today, we're talking about the history of rap music, one of the most popular kinds of music in the world.
SAVION: We were inspired by this question from Parker.
PARKER: Hi, my name is Parker, and I'm from Sudbury, Ontario. My question is, where did rap music come from?
JOY DOLO: Thanks for that great question, Parker. Savion, have you ever listened to rap music?
SAVION: I have listened to it. It's like one of my favorite kinds of music.
JOY DOLO: Oh, really? Do you have a favorite artist?
SAVION: I like Lupe Fiasco and Tupac.
JOY DOLO: Oh, wow. That's pretty cool. Do you have a favorite song?
SAVION: I like "Kick Push" by Lupe Fiasco.
JOY DOLO: OK, cool, cool. That's cool. I might have to look that up because-- OK, so here's my deal. Like, I listen to a lot of different kinds of music, and so I know one artist in each genre.
SAVION: Oh.
JOY DOLO: If that makes sense. So I know who Tupac is. I don't know who Lupe Fiasco is. Please don't judge me, Savion.
SAVION: Hm.
JOY DOLO: Do you listen to other types of music or other genres?
SAVION: I listen to rock music.
JOY DOLO: OK. What are some of your other favorite artists?
SAVION: The Score, Imagine Dragons, Blacklite District.
JOY DOLO: Cool. Do you have a favorite song that you're listening to right now or just in general?
SAVION: I like "Army" by Zayde Wolf.
JOY DOLO: Would it be too much for me to ask you how it goes, or like what are some of the lyrics?
SAVION: I think I remember some of it.
(SINGING) The time is now
Going kamikaze, won't back down, yeah
JOY DOLO: Yeah! That rock's! Rock and roll! Savion, we got to start a band, man.
SAVION: That would be cool.
JOY DOLO: Would you want to be in a band?
SAVION: Actually, yeah, I think so.
JOY DOLO: Oh, yeah, that's awesome. That is so cool. If you could make up your own genre of music, what would it sound like.
SAVION: I think it'd be kind of like rock and electronic mixed together.
JOY DOLO: Like, guitars and maybe like a synth of some kind?
SAVION: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Would it have a specific name, like this genre of music?
SAVION: I don't know. Maybe like electro rock.
JOY DOLO: Ah, yeah, I like that-- electro rock. Electrock. Electrock.
SAVION: Oh, yeah.
JOY DOLO: Like combining it, you know?
SAVION: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: That's pretty cool. I like that. Maybe I can be in your band.
SAVION: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Electrock band. Anyway, back to rap music.
SAVION: Rapping is when you rhyme words over a beat, keeping the rhythm of the music.
JOY DOLO: There are so many types of music that influenced rap, from the Blues to jazz and spoken word poetry. Before rap was its own kind of music, there were a lot of examples that sounded like an early version of rapping, like this 1940s song from The Jubalaires.
[THE JUBALAIRES, "NOAH"]
- Stop, be still, and listen to me
When God walked down to the brandy sea
He declared that the evil descend from man
And then he decided to destroy the land
He spoke to Noah and Noah stopped
He said, Noah, I want you to build me an ark
I want you to build it three cubits long
I want you to build it big and strong
I want it 30 high and 50 wide so it feels
SAVION: There's also this spoken word poem set to music from 1971. It was written by Gil Scott-Heron.
[GIL SCOTT-HERON, "THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED"]
- The revolution will not be televised
The revolution will not be brought to you by Xerox in four parts without commercial interruptions
The revolution will not show you pictures of Nixon blowing a bugle and leading a charge by John Mitchell, General Abrams, and Spiro Agnew
To eat hog maws confiscated from a Harlem sanctuary
The revolution will not be televised
JOY DOLO: It's hard to say when rapping was officially invented. First in history can be hard to pinpoint, as we know in First Things First, especially when we're talking about music, language, and art.
SAVION: Sometimes pinpointing history is like trying to pin jelly to the wall.
JOY DOLO: Precisely. And even though it's tough to know exactly when rap first started, there's still so much history to explore. Today, we're going to look at two standout moments in rap music history. First, how one back to school party brought beats and rhymes together. And later, how one song brought rap music to the world.
SAVION: Our first story starts in August 1973.
NARRATOR: Story number one.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: Back in the 1970s, Funk music was topping the charts and bell bottom pants were everywhere.
SAVION: The card game UNO had just been invented, and Disney World opened in Florida.
JOY DOLO: And in New York City, many communities were struggling, especially in the Bronx. In the 1970s, the Bronx was one of the poorest parts of the city.
SAVION: Lots of families barely had enough money to buy food or pay rent.
JOY DOLO: It was hard to find work and schools were shutting down.
SAVION: For the kids living in the Bronx, there wasn't much to do.
JOY DOLO: But young people were still getting creative and finding ways to have fun.
SAVION: Which brings us to Cindy Campbell.
JOY DOLO: In the summer of 1973, Cindy was 15 years old. She wanted new clothes for the upcoming school year, but she didn't have the cash to just go and buy a new wardrobe. So she decided to throw a party to raise money.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SAVION: Cindy got to work. She made flyers on index cards and left them all around the neighborhood.
JOY DOLO: She reserved the community room in her family's apartment building, bought hot dogs and soda. And most importantly, she asked her older brother Clive to be in charge of music at the party. Clive was a DJ and his nickname was DJ Kool Herc.
SAVION: DJ Kool Herc was 18 years old at the time. And he loved to play music.
JOY DOLO: Remember, this was back in the '70s, way before streaming music, CDs, even before cassette tapes. People used to play records.
SAVION: Records look like big flat disks, and they're about the same size as a pizza.
JOY DOLO: They're usually black and have tiny circular lines on them called grooves.
SAVION: Yeah, they look like tree rings.
JOY DOLO: To play music, you put the records on a machine called a turntable, which spins the record around and reads the music in the record's grooves, sending it to your speakers.
SAVION: DJ Kool Herc had a lot of records. He grew up in Jamaica and loved reggae music, but he also liked other kinds of music, like Funk.
JOY DOLO: So Herc brought his records to the party, plus a speaker system and turntables to play them. And to top it off, Herc and Cindy hung a mirrored disco ball from the ceiling to really set that party vibe.
SAVION: Remember, Cindy wanted to raise money to buy school clothes, so she charged up to $0.50 for anyone who came to the party.
JOY DOLO: People started flooding into the party to see Herc DJ. As the story goes, Herc noticed people really liked dancing during the breakdown of songs. The breakdown is a special word for when the song changes for a little bit, maybe 30 seconds or so.
SAVION: Breakdowns are little moments where the song takes a break from its usual pattern.
JOY DOLO: Like if the song has a singer, maybe the singer stops singing, and you just hear the instruments for a bit.
SAVION: Or maybe the rhythm of the song changes.
JOY DOLO: Usually, these breakdowns are just instrumental. During one, you might only hear a few instruments, just the drums and bass. Let's listen to a breakdown during the song "Apache" by the Incredible Bongo Band.
[INCREDIBLE BONGO BAND, "APACHE"]
Did you hear how the song switched up? It went from that guitar bit--
[VOCALIZING]
--to just bongos and drums.
[VOCALIZING]
That bongo and drum solo is a breakdown. Have you ever heard that song before, Savion?
SAVION: I don't think so.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, that's an old one, but that's an example of a breakdown.
SAVION: It just makes you want to dance.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, and that's exactly what DJ Kool Herc noticed, too. So to keep the party going, Herc invented a new technique on the turntables inspired by song breakdowns like the one we just listened to.
SAVION: Herc set up two turntables.
JOY DOLO: He would play a drum breakdown on one turntable.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SAVION: And as soon as one breakdown finished, he would switch to the other turntable and play another breakdown.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: Herc bounced back and forth between records, creating an endless loop of breakdowns. He called this technique the merry-go-round.
SAVION: People at the party went wild for this. Some of them even started breakdancing.
JOY DOLO: Breakdancing, also called breaking, is a type of dance that uses moves similar to the stuff you see in gymnastics and martial arts. There's quick steps, handstands, and even head spins. It was a new kind of dance back in the 1970s.
SAVION: Just like DJing was a new kind of music. People were finding so many new ways to make art. But back to the party.
JOY DOLO: DJ Kool Herc was playing loops of breakbeats. People were breakdancing, and to add to the fun, Herc took a microphone and started shouting out people.
SAVION: If he saw a friend in the crowd, he'd call out their name.
JOY DOLO: DJ Kool Herc's friend, DJ Coke La Rock also started doing shoutouts and making up rhymes over Herc's looping breakdowns, like "rock and you don't stop."
SAVION: DJ Coke La Rock was rapping.
JOY DOLO: The crowd went wild!
[CHEERING]
SAVION: The party was unforgettable.
JOY DOLO: And for many music historians, that legendary party on August 11, 1973, marks the beginning of beats and rhyming coming together in a way no one had heard before-- the birth of rap music as we know it.
SAVION: It was revolutionary. Teenagers were inventing a whole new kind of music without playing any kind of instruments.
JOY DOLO: Instead, they were using music that already existed on records to create beats of their own. People were rhyming over these beats to create rap music or dancing to them to create breakdancing. They were inventing new art and celebrating, despite the difficult world around them.
SAVION: And it all started with teenagers like Cindy Campbell, DJ Kool Herc, and DJ Coke La Rock.
JOY DOLO: But that was just one party. How did rap go from the Bronx to a worldwide obsession? Well, there's one song that put rap music on the map. But before we get into that, I think it's time for a doo-doo-doo-doo breakdown. And by breakdown, I mean a little break because it's time for--
CREW: First Things First!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: So this is the game where we take three things from history and try to put them in order of which came first, second, and most recent in time. And today's three things are three essentials to rap music-- turntables, those machines that play records, microphones, and drum machines, which are machines that you can use to make drum beats. So which of those three do you think came first, which came second, and which came most recently in history?
SAVION: I think microphones came first.
JOY DOLO: OK. And what about drum machines?
SAVION: OK, so I think it looks kind of high tech, but not too high tech, so I think that's second.
JOY DOLO: OK, so drum machines second.
SAVION: And then the turntables are last.
JOY DOLO: All right. So we have microphones and then drum machines and then turntables. Why do you think microphones is first?
SAVION: They seem like the least advanced. I mean, we still use them, but like-- well, I guess I'm kind of picturing like the kind of microphones that you hold, not the ones that we're using right now.
JOY DOLO: That makes sense from a long time. And then turntables, I mean, we were just talking about them. So, I mean, they do seem like they could be like most recently--
SAVION: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: --invented. Those are solid guesses. We'll hear the answers at the end of the episode right after the credits.
SAVION: So stick around.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: We're working on an episode all about how whales communicate. And we want to know, if you could communicate with any type of animal, which would you want to talk with and why? Savion, what do you think?
SAVION: I think I'd want to talk with some kind of bird or something, and then it could get me like dinner or something.
JOY DOLO: A bird will get you dinner? I love that.
SAVION: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Like through a drive-through?
SAVION: No, swoop down, get like a fish or something, and then I'll cook it.
JOY DOLO: OK, all right. Yeah. You can make me some fish, too. Listeners, record yourself explaining what kind of animal you'd like to be able to communicate with and send it to us at foreverago.org/contact. And while you're there, you can send us episode ideas, questions, and drawings, like a picture of me DJing with pizza bagels.
SAVION: So keep listening.
CREW: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Forever Ago, we know you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
[JET ENGINE]
SUBJECT: Forever Ago, I'm their biggest fan. I also love Smash Boom Best, a fun debate podcast for kids and families. Listen, I will play you Smash Boom Best. You will love.
[BEEPING, GENTLE MELODY]
SUBJECT: To refresh your memory, The Ugly Duckling goes like this. A bunch of duck eggs hatch and the cute little ducklings go, quack, quack, quack!
[DUCKLINGS QUACKING]
Mother Duck is super happy with her eggs, when crack, the last one explodes. And out comes this--
[BEEPING]
SUBJECT: Zorp! Where did the signal go?
[BEEPING]
Must find Smash Boom Best now!
[ENGINE ROARING]
SUBJECT: Listen to Smash Boom Best wherever you get your podcasts.
[LIVELY TUNE]
JOY: You're listening to Forever Ago. I'm Joy.
SAVION: And I'm Savion.
JOY: And today we're talking about the history of rap. We just heard how a group of teenagers in The Bronx threw a raging party that marked the beginning of rap music.
SAVION: Cindy Campbell threw the party to raise money for new school clothes.
JOY: Cindy's brother, DJ Kool Herc, played loops of breakdowns, the instrumental breaks in songs to make the crowds go wild.
SAVION: And their friend Coke La Rock helped hype up the crowds by shouting out his friends and rhyming over Herc's beat.
JOY: The party was so successful that Herc kept DJing more parties over the next few years.
SAVION: A lot of times, the parties were outside, either in a park or even in the streets.
JOY: Sometimes Herc would use streetlamps to power his DJ sets, plugging his equipment into outlets at the lamp's base. People would get together, break dance, and just have fun.
SAVION: Herc's DJing inspired a lot of other young people in his neighborhood.
JOY: Soon, his music and merry-go-round technique of playing loops of breakdowns started spreading across The Bronx, then to other neighborhoods, then across New York City.
SAVION: Even though rap music was spreading across the city, you could only hear it played live by DJs.
JOY: Yeah, this music was at parties or gatherings outside. Nobody was really recording it, and nobody played it on the radio.
SAVION: But that was all about to change with one song and one visionary woman.
JOY: Which brings us to [DJ AIR HORN] story number two! [TURNTABLE SCRATCHING]
SAVION: Joy, I got to say, your DJ skills are just getting better and better.
JOY: Oh, I think, Savion. I've been [TURNTABLE SCRATCHING] focusing on my hobbies and putting in the work. [TURNTABLE SCRATCHING] Practice makes perfect. [DJ AIR HORN]
SAVION: For our next story, we're going to stay in the 1970s.
JOY: That's when a type of music called "disco" ruled the airwaves. Think spinning disco mirror balls, light up dance floors, and songs like "Stayin' Alive" by the Bee Gees.
[BEE GEES, "STAYIN' ALIVE"] --everybody shakin'
And we're stayin' alive, stayin' alive
Ah, ah, ah, ah
Stayin' alive, stayin' alive
Ah, ah, ah, ah
Stayin' alive
Oh, when you walk
SAVION: People weren't listening to rap music on the radio, at least not yet.
SUBJECT: But that all changed because of Sylvia Robinson.
SAVION: Sylvia was a record producer in New Jersey. She started her own record company called Sugar Hill Records.
JOY: Unfortunately, back in 1979, Sylvia's record company was struggling.
(AS SLYVIA) Think, Sylvia. Think. What could save the company?
SAVION: Sylvia came up with the perfect solution when she went to her niece's birthday party.
JOY: And she saw someone rapping.
(AS SYLVIA) That's it. I'll make a record out of this.
So Sylvia got to work. With the help of her son, Sylvia found three rappers, Big Bank Hank, Master Gee, and Wonder Mike.
SAVION: She put them together into a musical group and called them the Sugarhill Gang, named after her record company.
JOY: Sylvia had her new group sing over a popular funk track called "Good Times" by Chic.
[CHIC, "GOOD TIMES]
(SINGING) Good times
These are the good times
Leave your cares behind
These are the good times
JOY: The trio rapped over this track for a whopping 15 minutes straight, and they recorded it in just one take, meaning they didn't stop to rerecord any of the parts.
SAVION: But they cut it down to about 7 minutes for the radio and they called it "Rapper's Delight."
JOY: Here's a clip of the song.
[SUGARHILL GANG, "RAPPER'S DELIGHT"] A with a hip-hop, the hippie to the hippie
The hip, hip-hop and you don't stop the rockin'
To the bang-bang boogie, say up jump the boogie
To the rhythm of the boogie, the beat
I said, "A Hank, a can ya rock?
Can ya rock to the rhythm that just don't stop?
A can ya hip me to the shoobie doo?"
I said, "A come on, make, make the people move"
I go toot the horns and then ring the bell
JOY: Hey, Savion, what do you think of that song?
SAVION: I like it.
SUBJECT: Do you think you could do your own rhymes like that?
SAVION: No.
JOY: Yeah, me neither. Actually, maybe I could. Maybe I would. Or maybe I should. Um, um, um, um--
(RAPPING) These pencils are made of wood.
[LAUGHTER]
Gosh, I'm so bad. We'll keep it to the professionals.
[LAUGHTER]
"Rapper's Delight" was a smash hit. You could tell because in lots of neighborhoods, it was everywhere. It seemed like every bus, train, car radio, and boombox was playing that song.
SAVION: It was the first rap song to break the Billboard's Top 40.
JOY: And went on to sell over 14 million copies.
JOY: Now people could turn on the radio and hear rap music, which introduced the genre to so many more listeners.
JOY: The song was so successful, Sylvia started signing more rap artists like the group Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five. You might have heard of their song "The Message."
[GRANDMASTER FLASH AND THE FURIOUS FIVE, "THE MESSAGE] So don't push me 'cause I'm close to the edge
I'm trying not to lose my head
Ah, huh-huh, huh, huh
It's like a jungle sometimes
It makes me wonder how I keep from going under
Huh, ah huh-huh, huh, huh
It's like a jungle sometimes
It makes me wonder how I keep from going under
Huh. ah huh-huh, huh, huh
JOY: Eventually, more and more record labels started signing more and more artists, and rap music exploded into the hugely popular genre it is today.
SAVION: "Rapper's Delight" brought rap music from parties and parks in New York to radio stations across the world.
JOY: That's right, and it all started with young people in The Bronx who were getting creative and finding ways to have fun despite living through a really difficult time in the city.
SAVION: Those kids were truly innovative.
JOY: Think about it. How cool is it that you can create rap music from other types of music?
SAVION: Right, just like how DJ Kool Herc created a new sound just using the records he had around.
JOY: And then you add even more layers when you start rapping? You know, it really reminds me of when you make a collage.
SAVION: I've heard of that. That's when you cut out different things from magazines or books or drawing and glue it all together.
JOY: That's right, and it's taking bits and pieces of something that already exists and putting it together to make something completely new. Rap music does the same thing.
SAVION: And that's thanks to so many artists and visionaries over the decades.
JOY: Yeah, people like Cindy Campbell, DJ Kool Herc, DJ Coke La Rock, and music producer Sylvia Robinson.
SAVION: Plus inspiration from all different kinds of music and performance like jazz, funk, and even spoken word poetry.
JOY: If you really think about it, rap music is a mashup of so many amazing combinations, just like a--
MAN (VOICEOVER): Pizza bagel!
[DJ AIR HORN] We love ending with a metaphor. [DJ AIR HORN] DJ Dolo! [DJ AIR HORN]
SAVION: Drop that bagel beat.
[DISCO BEAT]
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY: This episode was written by--
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
JOY: And produced by--
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
JOY: Our editors are--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
JOY: And--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
JOY: Fact-checking by--
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
JOY: Engineering help from Brian Matheson and Alex Simpson. With sound design by--
RACHEL BRIESE: Rachel Briese.
JOY: Original theme music by--
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
JOY: We had additional production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team--
MOLLY BLOOM: Molly Bloom.
ROSIE DUPONT: Rosie DuPont.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
LAUREN HUMPERT: Lauren Humpert.
JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
ANNA WEGEL: Anna Weggel.
JOY: And--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
JOY: Beth Pearlman is our executive producer, and the executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Special thanks to Heather Bowser and Adam [? DeWolfe, ?] [? Chernor, ?] Kalif, Desmond, and [? Kamaria. ?] And if you want access to ad-free episodes and special bonus content, subscribe to our Smarty Pass.
[THEME MUSIC]
OK, Savion, are you ready to hear the answers to First Things First?
SAVION: Yep.
JOY: All right. So just a reminder, first, you said microphones. Second, you said drum machine. And third, you said turntables, right?
SAVION: Mm-hmm.
JOY: All right. Drum machine, drum roll, please. [TRILLING TONGUE] One day, they're going to use my drum roll. But I don't think it'll be any time soon. All right. Oh, man, this was a tough one. We had some things-- we had the right intention. I'll tell you that right now. First up, we had turntables. That was actually the oldest one in history. Yeah, and that one is from 1857. Whoa!
The earliest turntable-like device was invented by a Frenchman named Édouard-Léon Scott de Martinville. It was called the "phonautograph," and it was the first machine to record sound. The phonautograph would pick up sound vibrations, which moved the needle back and forth, tracing squiggling lines onto glass. Oh, interesting. So that was first. That was 1857.
And then next up, we had the microphone, and that was 1877. So lots of people were inventing microphone-like devices around the 1850s and 1860s. But German inventor Emile Berliner is often credited for inventing the first modern microphone back in 1877. So Emile's microphone was used to make the sounds in telephones louder and easier to hear.
And without Emil's invention, the telephone probably wouldn't have become a household object. [GASPS] Emile, thank you so much.
SAVION: Yes, thank you.
JOY: All right, and last but not least is the drum machine, and that was invented in 1930. Whoa! So the first drum machine was invented by Leon Theremin in 1930. He called it the "rhythmicon," and it looked like a keyboard. You could play different rhythms with different pitches, but it was notoriously difficult to use. It would take 50 more years for the 808 drum machine to be invented, and that's one of the most influential instruments in rap music.
Oh, and a side note, Leon Theremin also invented an instrument called the "theremin." It's an electric musical instrument that sounds like an alien spaceship. Have you ever played a keyboard, Savion? Like that, can change different sounds and stuff?
SAVION: Yeah, my old school, we had a keyboard that we could play for breaks and stuff.
JOY: Yeah, there used to be one that I played that you can change. It sounds like a voice saying a certain thing like a "la, la, la." And then when you do it all together, it sounds like people singing. I always thought that was pretty cool. Were you surprised by any of these answers?
SAVION: Yeah. I thought the drum machines to be in the first two.
JOY: Yeah, yeah. I thought of it more of like something that was invented recently, but 1930 is still a pretty long time ago.
SAVION: Mm-hmm.
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY: Join us next week for a new episode, all about whales.
SAVION: Thanks for listening.
[THEME MUSIC]
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