APM Studios
Gladiators were professional fighters who lived thousands of years ago in ancient Rome. But they weren't just fighters, they were also influencers who helped sell products and were hugely popular with fans.
Join Joy and co-host Juliette as they explore the history of these athletes – and learn how some of them tried to escape their lives of constant battle. They’ll hear the story of one of the most famous gladiators of all time, Spartacus, and the revolution he led. Plus, a sporty new First Things First!
Featured Expert:
Dr. Fiona Radford is a historian who specializes in ancient Rome. She also co-hosts The Partial Historians podcast.
Audio Transcript
Download transcript (PDF)
[SCRATCHING] JOY DOLO: No, no! That will never do! Think, Dolo! Think!
JULIETTE: Hey, Joy. I brought my smelly markers. Why did you text me and say you needed them A-S-A-P- P- P- P?
JOY DOLO: You know, A- S- A- P- P- P- P-- as soon as possible, please, please, please. It's a marker-related emergency!
JULIETTE: Joy, are you drawing on the walls! You're going to be in so much trouble.
JOY DOLO: I'm in the middle of drawing history! Listen, I was at a museum, and I saw all these ancient artifacts and drawings from thousands of years ago.
JULIETTE: That's great, but why did you need my scented smelly markers?
JOY DOLO: Pass me that gym sock-scented green-colored marker and I'll tell you. Oh, that is a strong musk.
JULIETTE: My eyes are watering.
JOY DOLO: I'll be quick.
[GASP]
At the museum, I saw all these awesome artifacts from literally forever ago, and it got me thinking. I want Forever Ago to last forever and ever. And I want people to be talking about it thousands of years from now. I want it to be legendary, so I started drawing a mural of my favorite episodes on the wall.
JULIETTE: OK, but I still don't get why you need my markers.
JOY DOLO: The scent relaxes me. Pass me the hot dog mustard-scented yellow. If you look down the hall, you'll see my drawings that will make Forever Ago a show the world will remember.
JULIETTE: Wow. There's the giant hill that you rolled down in the "History of Grass" episode. Oh, and there's a video game controller from the very first episode of Forever Ago.
JOY DOLO: And check this out. I drew my gum sculpture come-to-life/best buddy Gumpy sitting on his gum couch, plus fortune cookies, a pride flag, and even my pet elephant, Hermie.
JULIETTE: Hey, what's that line on the wall?
JOY DOLO: Oh, I was trying to mark how tall I am. Do you think I grew from last year?
JULIETTE: Um, Joy, you're 37 years old.
JOY DOLO: Oh, I grow up so fast.
[THEME MUSIC]
You're listening to Forever Ago from APM Studios. I'm your host, Joy Dolo. And I'm here today with Juliette from Minneapolis, Minnesota.
JULIETTE: Hi, Joy.
JOY DOLO: Hello. And today, we're talking all about gladiators. OK, Juliette, if you had a special skill as a gladiator, what would it be? It doesn't have to be real. It can be like, I can disappear.
JULIETTE: I actually like that idea, so yeah, I would like to be able to disappear when I'm in the arena.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, that'd be nice. Like, now you see me, now you don't.
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Sorry. Fight's canceled. Juliette disappeared again. She's disappeared from the arena.
I think if I could be one, I would like to fly, or I'd want like a power where it's like I'm not always in the arena, but sometimes I can be like the boss of it, like the emperor. And I can be like, oh, yeah, well, I'm just here to watch everybody. I'm not really here to fight. Like, if you change your status, that'd be pretty cool.
Do you think you would have a certain kind of armor if you were a disappearing gladiator?
JULIETTE: It would be all white with a little arm cuff.
JOY DOLO: Oh, cute. Yes. Maybe a little cape?
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: And a little hat?
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: OK. Maybe a feather in the hat?
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: OK, how about some white sunglasses?
JULIETTE: Yes!
JOY DOLO: And you could have white sneakers with little wings on them.
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Do you need a manager? Because I don't know how long this gig is going to last, and we could be gladiator and manager on the road. Do you think as one of your abilities as a disappearing gladiator that you would be like fast or strong or smart? Like, which of those skills do you think is most important?
JULIETTE: I think smart and strong. I don't think fast would be a big part of it because you have to be smart with what you do and what you choose to do to the opponent because they can try to observe what you do. And then the next round, end up doing it to you--
JOY DOLO: Yeah.
JULIETTE: --when you least expect it.
JOY DOLO: Mm-hmm.
JULIETTE: And also, I think being strong is really important because you could lift them up.
JOY DOLO: Yeah.
JULIETTE: And fight for your self.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, one last question. If you could name your gladiator, what would your name be, like a superhero kind of name?
JULIETTE: Colonel Mustard because mustard is a lot better than mayonnaise.
JOY DOLO: I feel like we're best friends. I absolutely agree with that 100%.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
You might have seen gladiators on TV or in movies. They were real-life people who were around a long time ago. They were professional fighters that would go head-to-head in all sorts of different fighting styles. Huge crowds would gather to watch them in big arenas.
JULIETTE: If these skilled fighters were from so long ago, how come we still talk about them today?
JOY DOLO: To find out, we need to explore the before, the way, way, way before. Pass me that baby poop-scented orange marker, and I'll draw the story.
[SNAP]
[SCRATCHING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JULIETTE: Although gladiator fighting was in a bunch of different cultures, it was really popular in Ancient Rome.
JOY DOLO: Ancient Rome was founded more than 2,500 years ago. Over hundreds of years, Rome grew into a huge empire. At one point, it stretched all the way from Egypt to England, and it completely surrounded the Mediterranean Sea.
JULIETTE: Daily life in the Roman Empire was really different from the world we live in today. Instead of cars, people got around on foot or with horse-drawn carts called chariots.
JOY DOLO: Instead of burgers and fries, rich Romans dined on parrot or roasted flamingo. Regular people mostly ate grains and beans, though.
JULIETTE: And no need for a fork and knife. They just used their hands.
JOY DOLO: There were marble statues everywhere, except they weren't gray like you see in museums. They were decorated with brightly-colored paint, gold, and silver.
JULIETTE: Most Ancient Romans wore tunics. This was a fabric sewn together with an opening for your arms and your head, kind of like a dress.
JOY DOLO: Rich Romans wore colorful togas over their clothes, kind of like a shawl made of wool. It was a way of showing off their social status, and only men were allowed to wear them.
JULIETTE: Oh, you should draw a toga.
JOY DOLO: Good idea. Throw me bottom-of-the-garbage-scented gray, and I shall illustrate the very rich and the very poor.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JULIETTE: Social status was very important in Ancient Rome. People were divided by how much money they had.
JOY DOLO: The upper class Romans were called patricians and the lower class were called plebeians. Patricians were wealthy, owned a lot of land, and were considered nobility, like kings and queens. Plebeians were not so rich. They were craftspeople, farmers, and workers.
During this time, Rome was always at war. And when they won, which was a lot, they would take people against their will to be enslaved.
JULIETTE: Scholars think up to 20% of the Roman population might have been enslaved.
JOY DOLO: Some of these enslaved people ended up being forced to be gladiators.
JULIETTE: They would spend a lot of time training.
JOY DOLO: If they won, it would bring honor and glory to their enslaver, get them some awesome prizes, and eventually, they might be able to buy their freedom.
JULIETTE: But for most Romans, rich and poor, watching gladiators fight was a form of entertainment.
JOY DOLO: A way for people to escape from reality, kind of like when I watch reruns of SpongeBob Squarepants after a long day.
JULIETTE: One of the biggest arenas where the people gathered in Rome was the Colosseum.
[TRUMPETING]
JOY DOLO: The Coliseum is a huge concrete and stone structure that's still standing today. It's shaped like an oval. And back in Ancient Rome, it could hold up to 50,000 people.
JULIETTE: It was open to the sky, like a modern day football stadium.
JOY DOLO: And it was about 15 stories high. But the Coliseum wasn't just an impressive building. It was the best place for entertainment.
JULIETTE: Plus, it was free to get in, and sometimes there was even free food.
JOY DOLO: Ooh, pass me some flamingo! The Coliseum brought Romans together to experience great entertainment, great honor, and great biceps. I'm talking about--
BOTH: Munera.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: Munera is what Romans called gladiator games.
JULIETTE: Don't be fooled, though. These were not like football or basketball games. These games were intense and over the top.
JOY DOLO: There were naval battles where they would fill basins with water and fight on boats. There were also battles with specially-trained gladiators who fought different animals like lions, rhinos, and dogs.
JULIETTE: Oh, my.
JOY DOLO: However, the munera's main event, the icing on the cake, the cherry on the ice cream sundae were the fights between gladiators.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JULIETTE: Like we said, most gladiators were enslaved people.
JOY DOLO: Some gladiators were prisoners of war or criminals that were trained and forced to fight in the munera. Only a very small number of people volunteered because that meant you were choosing to be the status of a slave. But sometimes people couldn't resist an opportunity for fame and celebrity.
JULIETTE: Each gladiator had an advantage, whether it was speed, armor, or fighting skill. And that's why people came from miles around to see who was the best.
JOY DOLO: Even though the fights were pretty violent, it's a myth that gladiators always fought to the death.
JULIETTE: They were trained just to hurt or wound the other gladiator.
JOY DOLO: A defeated gladiator would raise one finger to surrender and was usually granted mercy. It took a lot of money and time to train gladiators how to fight, so the people that ran the fights wanted to keep their gladiators alive.
JULIETTE: Another myth was that all gladiators were men. Some were women.
JOY DOLO: Right. Archaeologists have found ancient stone carvings showing female gladiators battling with shields and swords.
JULIETTE: And people traveled far and wide to get a glimpse of gladiators performing.
JOY DOLO: Even though the fights were often violent, even bloody, kids in Ancient Rome were obsessed with gladiators.
JULIETTE: There are ancient charcoal stick figure drawings that show how much kids loved the gladiator games.
JOY DOLO: They even played with little gladiator action figures made of clay.
JULIETTE: And Roman people loved gladiators. Like, really, really, really loved them.
[CROWD CHEERING]
SUBJECT 1: We love you, Octavius!
SUBJECT 2: Octavius, Octavius, OMG, he looked at me! I'm gonna faint.
SUBJECT 3: That battle was epic.
SUBJECT 4: Sign my goat!
[BLEATING]
JOY DOLO: People would even collect the sweat off of a gladiator after a battle and use it in things like face cream.
JULIETTE: Ew. I definitely don't want any of that sweaty lotion on my face.
JOY DOLO: Well, when in Rome. Mm. So moisturizing. Some of the biggest gladiators had brand endorsements. That means people would have gladiators say how much they loved a product just to get more people to buy it. Like how pro athletes and celebrities endorse products today.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SUBJECT 5: Do you wish you had skin softer than a baby pig's ear? What a tasty little dip for your snackies? Then try Ollie Oil Man's olive oil, the only olive oil that Octavius, the gladiator, uses.
OCTAVIUS: Hi, I'm Octavius, the gladiator, and I use Ollie Oil Man's olive oil for all of my olive oil needs-- fighting, sleeping, eating, and fighting some more.
SUBJECT 5: We even mixed a little sweat from Octavius's last fight. Buy a jug of Ollie Oil Man's olive oil today for the low price of 25 copper coins or one large goat.
[BLEATING]
Buy today!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: Even though the gladiators were really popular, they were still enslaved. One gladiator decided that enough was enough. He decided to lead an uprising and revolt. We'll talk more about that in just a bit.
JULIETTE: Ooh, a cliff hanger.
JOY DOLO: The cliffiest of cliffhangers. But first, let's step in the ring and play.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ALL: (SINGING) First Things First!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: This is the game where we take three things from history and try to put them in order of which came first, second, and most recent in time. Since gladiator fighting was a kind of sport, today we're putting these three sports in order-- tennis, lacrosse, and sumo wrestling. OK, Juliette, have you heard of these sports before?
JULIETTE: Yes.
JOY DOLO: Yes, OK. So which do you think came first, which came second, and which came most recently in history?
JULIETTE: What was the second one that you said?
JOY DOLO: Lacrosse. Do you know what lacrosse is?
JULIETTE: No.
JOY DOLO: So lacrosse is a sport where you have these long sticks that have a net on the end of it. You can think of it like a butterfly net. And then you use the sticks to throw and catch a ball back and forth. It's kind of like lawn hockey, except instead of playing on the ground, you're throwing in the air. Does that make sense?
JULIETTE: Yeah, I think, sumo wrestling came first.
JOY DOLO: OK.
JULIETTE: Because sumo wrestling feels like a very old-fashioned thing. You have the little underpants.
JOY DOLO: The underpants that they wear?
JULIETTE: Yeah. And then the movements seem pretty complex, but also kind of easy if you learn them well.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. Yeah.
JULIETTE: So and then maybe lacrosse, because it sounds like something that maybe great, great-grandparents would have played.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, something from way back in the day. Like, I had to walk in the snow uphill after a lacrosse game.
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: So we have sumo wrestling first and then lacrosse second because it's something that our grandparents played. And then so finally we have tennis.
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. So that seems like it's probably the most like newest one.
JULIETTE: I think because the rackets and the net part, it looks very complicatedly woven, and the balls also seem pretty hard to make.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. Yeah. Like, the technology of the sport seems like it's something from now times and not before times. I hear that. I can get behind that. So we have sumo wrestling and then lacrosse and then tennis. All right, we're going to plug that in, and we'll hear the answers at the end of the episode right after the credits.
JULIETTE: So stick around.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: We're working on an episode all about jobs that used to exist in the past but don't exist anymore today. But we want to know, what jobs do you think will exist in the future that don't exist today? Juliette, what do you think? Any ideas about jobs of the future?
JULIETTE: I feel like it's really hard to find socks that match.
JOY DOLO: Yes. Yes, Juliette.
JULIETTE: I don't know if it's just me, but it's very hard. I have a whole bag of orphan socks.
JOY DOLO: Do you? Can you trace them back from years before? It's like, oh, I remember when I had this sock.
JULIETTE: I had this sock, and it was a unicorn. And it had grippy bottoms. And I got it when I was like four, I think, and it passed away.
JOY DOLO: Oh, RIP, rest in peace, sock. That's too bad. That should be a job. Somebody that goes and finds socks, the missing ones.
Listeners, record yourself describing what new job you think will exist in the future and send it to us at foreverago.org/contact. And while you're there, you can send us episode ideas, questions, and drawings. Like, maybe you want to draw a picture of me drawing a picture of a gladiator. (SINGING) Meta!
CREW: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Forever Ago, we know you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
[JET ENGINE]
COMPUTER VOICE: Forever Ago. I'm their biggest fan. I also love Smash Boom Best, a fan debate podcast for kids and families. Listen, I will play you Smash Boom Best. You will love.
[COMPUTER BEEPING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CREW: To refresh your memory, the ugly duckling goes like this. A bunch of duck eggs hatch, and the cute little ducklings go quack, quack, quack, quack. Mother duck is super happy with her eggs. When crack, the last one explodes. And out comes a--
[BEEPING]
CREW: Zorb! Where did the signal go?
[COMPUTER BEEPING]
Must find Smash Boom Best, now!
CREW: Listen to Smash Boom Best wherever you get your podcasts.
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY DOLO: You're listening to Forever Ago. I'm Joy.
JULIETTE: And I'm Juliette. Today, we're talking about gladiators.
JOY DOLO: Gladiators were trained fighters who lived thousands of years ago in the Ancient Roman Empire. Thousands of people watched gladiator fights for entertainment. They were kind of professional athletes.
JULIETTE: Gladiators were also celebritiesm but most were also enslaved people.
JOY DOLO: There's one enslaved gladiator that is still famous today. His name was--
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SPARTACUS: Spartacus.
JOY DOLO: That's right, Spartacus. To learn more, we talked with Dr. Fiona Radford. She's an expert on Ancient Rome and hosts a podcast all about it called The Partial Historians.
JULIETTE: Fiona says, we remember Spartacus not because of his fighting skills, but because he started a revolution.
FIONA RADFORD: The reason why he became famous is not so much his reputation whilst he was a gladiator, but he becomes famous because he rebelled against the Romans.
JULIETTE: Life for enslaved people in the Roman Empire was grueling.
JOY DOLO: They were forced to work in fields, work in people's homes, or fight as gladiators for entertainment. Most gladiators were not trained fighters, so they had to go to gladiator school. And these schools were more like prisons. These gladiators would train all day learning different combat moves.
JULIETTE: And even though they were celebrities, they did not have any freedom. And Spartacus wanted freedom badly.
SPARTACUS: I've had it. I think it's time for us gladiators to fight back.
FIONA RADFORD: So in 73 BCE, he leads a revolt where he and a bunch of other gladiators in the gladiatorial school where they were training, they break out. They seize weapons, and they go on a bit of a rampage.
SPARTACUS: Gladiators, revolt!
[CROWD CHEERING]
JULIETTE: And they escaped.
JOY DOLO: At first, the Romans didn't take this gladiator rebellion seriously, so they only sent a small army after them. But Spartacus and his small group of fighters defeated that small army, and they didn't stop there.
SPARTACUS: Bring it on.
JOY DOLO: News spread of the gladiators rebellion, and Spartacus's group started to grow. Gladiators and other enslaved people who had escaped and lots of poor people traveled to join Spartacus and his fighters.
SPARTACUS: Are you tired of the Roman Empire? Join my rebellion, and let's fight back together.
JOY DOLO: Soon, his army grew from around 70 people to tens of thousands. Spartacus and his army won battle after battle. And that was an embarrassment for the leaders of the Roman Empire.
FIONA RADFORD: He managed to really give them a run for their money.
JOY DOLO: But in the end, the Roman Empire's much bigger fighting forces overwhelmed Spartacus and his soldiers.
JULIETTE: Spartacus and his army fought hard, but in the end, they were defeated.
JOY DOLO: Even though Spartacus lost, he's still remembered today as a hero, a leader, and someone who fought for freedom.
JULIETTE: Long live Spartacus!
JOY DOLO: The gladiator games continued after Spartacus's rebellion for around another 300 years. But as Christianity became more popular, the games became more frowned upon because they were so violent. Eventually, they were banned about 1,600 years ago.
JULIETTE: But thousands of years later, we're still talking about gladiators and Spartacus. Talk about legendary.
JOY DOLO: (SINGING) Let's talk about it. Talk about being legendary.
[THEME MUSIC]
Gladiators were skilled fighters that fought in arenas for Roman entertainment thousands of years ago.
JULIETTE: Most gladiators were enslaved people, so they were forced to fight.
JOY DOLO: One of these enslaved gladiators, Spartacus, led a famous rebellion.
JULIETTE: And he became a legend, a symbol of fighting against injustice.
JOY DOLO: That's it for this episode of Forever Ago. It was written by me, Joy Dolo, and produced by--
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
JOY DOLO: And--
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
JOY DOLO: Our editors are--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
JOY DOLO: And--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
JOY DOLO: Fact checking by--
JESS MILLER: Jess Miller.
JOY DOLO: Engineering help from Derek Ramirez with sound design by--
RACHEL BREES: Rachel Brees.
JOY DOLO: Original theme music by--
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
JOY DOLO: We had additional production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team.
MOLLY BLOOM: Molly Bloom.
ROSE DUPONT: Rosie duPont.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
LAUREN HUMPERT: Lauren Humpert.
JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel.
JOY DOLO: And--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
JOY DOLO: Beth Perlman is our executive producer and the executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Special thanks to Stacey Jansen and Dr. Petra Greenfield.
JULIETTE: And if you want access to ad-free episodes and special bonus content, subscribe to our Smarty Pass.
JOY DOLO: OK, Juliette, you know what time it is? It's First Things First time. Are you ready to hear the answers?
JULIETTE: Yes.
JOY DOLO: All right. OK, so as a reminder, we're putting sports in order. And you said sumo wrestling, lacrosse, and then tennis. All right, let's see what the reveal reveals! Oh, Juliet, no. Oh, no. You got them all right.
JULIETTE: Wait, really?
JOY DOLO: Yeah! You nailed it.
JULIETTE: I never get those right.
JOY DOLO: You did great! That was amazing! Absolutely spot on. So, OK, sumo wrestling, number one, right on. So, 712 CE, so this Japanese style of wrestling is over 1,000 years old. It started as a part of the Shinto religion as a ritual to entertain gods. Farmers used to have sumo matches to pray for bountiful rice crops and a good harvest season.
Modern sumo matches started in the 1600s as a way to raise money for shrines, temples, or even to build bridges. That's cool. Thousands of years ago, I was probably five around that time, so.
JULIETTE: Wow.
JOY DOLO: I'm pretty old. One would say. I'm thousands of years old. Do you like any of my jokes?
JULIETTE: Yes.
JOY DOLO: Thank you. OK, and then second up is lacrosse, which you're right about too. So that was in the 12th century when that started. It's one of the oldest sports in North America invented by the Haudenosaunee people back in the 12th century. Ooh, that's cool.
The earliest lacrosse matches were huge and included about 100 to 1,000 men. That sounds like chaos. Could you imagine 1,000 people playing lacrosse?
JULIETTE: So much chaos.
JOY DOLO: So much chaos. The playing fields could be miles long and the games could last for days. Games were used for all sorts of purposes, like training people for combat, settling disputes between tribes, or just for fun. Do you think you could play sports for days? One sport for days?
JULIETTE: I don't like any sports with balls in them.
JOY DOLO: Yes.
JULIETTE: I would rather bike.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. Yeah, we could bike for days with 1,000 people. We could do the Tour de France.
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: And then last, certainly not least, is tennis, which you're right is the most recent. And that was invented in 1873. And so tennis, as we know it, AKA lawn tennis, was invented in 1873 in England by Walter Clopton Wingfield.
Earlier versions of tennis can be traced back to 11th and 12th century France, where the game was played with hands instead of racquets on an indoor court. Ow. Wingfield reinvented the game by creating a kit you could set up outside with posts, a net, rackets, and rubber balls. It became super popular with rich people who wanted to host games in their backyards.
Were you surprised by any of these?
JULIETTE: I thought I was going to get lacrosse wrong.
JOY DOLO: Yeah.
JULIETTE: Because I didn't like fully know what it is. So I'm going to do a lot of research.
JOY DOLO: If I look you up in like two years, are you going to be lacrosse superstar?
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Join us next week for a new episode all about the history of Black Friday.
JULIETTE: Thanks for listening.
[THEME MUSIC]
JULIETTE: Hey, Joy. I brought my smelly markers. Why did you text me and say you needed them A-S-A-P- P- P- P?
JOY DOLO: You know, A- S- A- P- P- P- P-- as soon as possible, please, please, please. It's a marker-related emergency!
JULIETTE: Joy, are you drawing on the walls! You're going to be in so much trouble.
JOY DOLO: I'm in the middle of drawing history! Listen, I was at a museum, and I saw all these ancient artifacts and drawings from thousands of years ago.
JULIETTE: That's great, but why did you need my scented smelly markers?
JOY DOLO: Pass me that gym sock-scented green-colored marker and I'll tell you. Oh, that is a strong musk.
JULIETTE: My eyes are watering.
JOY DOLO: I'll be quick.
[GASP]
At the museum, I saw all these awesome artifacts from literally forever ago, and it got me thinking. I want Forever Ago to last forever and ever. And I want people to be talking about it thousands of years from now. I want it to be legendary, so I started drawing a mural of my favorite episodes on the wall.
JULIETTE: OK, but I still don't get why you need my markers.
JOY DOLO: The scent relaxes me. Pass me the hot dog mustard-scented yellow. If you look down the hall, you'll see my drawings that will make Forever Ago a show the world will remember.
JULIETTE: Wow. There's the giant hill that you rolled down in the "History of Grass" episode. Oh, and there's a video game controller from the very first episode of Forever Ago.
JOY DOLO: And check this out. I drew my gum sculpture come-to-life/best buddy Gumpy sitting on his gum couch, plus fortune cookies, a pride flag, and even my pet elephant, Hermie.
JULIETTE: Hey, what's that line on the wall?
JOY DOLO: Oh, I was trying to mark how tall I am. Do you think I grew from last year?
JULIETTE: Um, Joy, you're 37 years old.
JOY DOLO: Oh, I grow up so fast.
[THEME MUSIC]
You're listening to Forever Ago from APM Studios. I'm your host, Joy Dolo. And I'm here today with Juliette from Minneapolis, Minnesota.
JULIETTE: Hi, Joy.
JOY DOLO: Hello. And today, we're talking all about gladiators. OK, Juliette, if you had a special skill as a gladiator, what would it be? It doesn't have to be real. It can be like, I can disappear.
JULIETTE: I actually like that idea, so yeah, I would like to be able to disappear when I'm in the arena.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, that'd be nice. Like, now you see me, now you don't.
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Sorry. Fight's canceled. Juliette disappeared again. She's disappeared from the arena.
I think if I could be one, I would like to fly, or I'd want like a power where it's like I'm not always in the arena, but sometimes I can be like the boss of it, like the emperor. And I can be like, oh, yeah, well, I'm just here to watch everybody. I'm not really here to fight. Like, if you change your status, that'd be pretty cool.
Do you think you would have a certain kind of armor if you were a disappearing gladiator?
JULIETTE: It would be all white with a little arm cuff.
JOY DOLO: Oh, cute. Yes. Maybe a little cape?
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: And a little hat?
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: OK. Maybe a feather in the hat?
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: OK, how about some white sunglasses?
JULIETTE: Yes!
JOY DOLO: And you could have white sneakers with little wings on them.
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Do you need a manager? Because I don't know how long this gig is going to last, and we could be gladiator and manager on the road. Do you think as one of your abilities as a disappearing gladiator that you would be like fast or strong or smart? Like, which of those skills do you think is most important?
JULIETTE: I think smart and strong. I don't think fast would be a big part of it because you have to be smart with what you do and what you choose to do to the opponent because they can try to observe what you do. And then the next round, end up doing it to you--
JOY DOLO: Yeah.
JULIETTE: --when you least expect it.
JOY DOLO: Mm-hmm.
JULIETTE: And also, I think being strong is really important because you could lift them up.
JOY DOLO: Yeah.
JULIETTE: And fight for your self.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, one last question. If you could name your gladiator, what would your name be, like a superhero kind of name?
JULIETTE: Colonel Mustard because mustard is a lot better than mayonnaise.
JOY DOLO: I feel like we're best friends. I absolutely agree with that 100%.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
You might have seen gladiators on TV or in movies. They were real-life people who were around a long time ago. They were professional fighters that would go head-to-head in all sorts of different fighting styles. Huge crowds would gather to watch them in big arenas.
JULIETTE: If these skilled fighters were from so long ago, how come we still talk about them today?
JOY DOLO: To find out, we need to explore the before, the way, way, way before. Pass me that baby poop-scented orange marker, and I'll draw the story.
[SNAP]
[SCRATCHING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JULIETTE: Although gladiator fighting was in a bunch of different cultures, it was really popular in Ancient Rome.
JOY DOLO: Ancient Rome was founded more than 2,500 years ago. Over hundreds of years, Rome grew into a huge empire. At one point, it stretched all the way from Egypt to England, and it completely surrounded the Mediterranean Sea.
JULIETTE: Daily life in the Roman Empire was really different from the world we live in today. Instead of cars, people got around on foot or with horse-drawn carts called chariots.
JOY DOLO: Instead of burgers and fries, rich Romans dined on parrot or roasted flamingo. Regular people mostly ate grains and beans, though.
JULIETTE: And no need for a fork and knife. They just used their hands.
JOY DOLO: There were marble statues everywhere, except they weren't gray like you see in museums. They were decorated with brightly-colored paint, gold, and silver.
JULIETTE: Most Ancient Romans wore tunics. This was a fabric sewn together with an opening for your arms and your head, kind of like a dress.
JOY DOLO: Rich Romans wore colorful togas over their clothes, kind of like a shawl made of wool. It was a way of showing off their social status, and only men were allowed to wear them.
JULIETTE: Oh, you should draw a toga.
JOY DOLO: Good idea. Throw me bottom-of-the-garbage-scented gray, and I shall illustrate the very rich and the very poor.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JULIETTE: Social status was very important in Ancient Rome. People were divided by how much money they had.
JOY DOLO: The upper class Romans were called patricians and the lower class were called plebeians. Patricians were wealthy, owned a lot of land, and were considered nobility, like kings and queens. Plebeians were not so rich. They were craftspeople, farmers, and workers.
During this time, Rome was always at war. And when they won, which was a lot, they would take people against their will to be enslaved.
JULIETTE: Scholars think up to 20% of the Roman population might have been enslaved.
JOY DOLO: Some of these enslaved people ended up being forced to be gladiators.
JULIETTE: They would spend a lot of time training.
JOY DOLO: If they won, it would bring honor and glory to their enslaver, get them some awesome prizes, and eventually, they might be able to buy their freedom.
JULIETTE: But for most Romans, rich and poor, watching gladiators fight was a form of entertainment.
JOY DOLO: A way for people to escape from reality, kind of like when I watch reruns of SpongeBob Squarepants after a long day.
JULIETTE: One of the biggest arenas where the people gathered in Rome was the Colosseum.
[TRUMPETING]
JOY DOLO: The Coliseum is a huge concrete and stone structure that's still standing today. It's shaped like an oval. And back in Ancient Rome, it could hold up to 50,000 people.
JULIETTE: It was open to the sky, like a modern day football stadium.
JOY DOLO: And it was about 15 stories high. But the Coliseum wasn't just an impressive building. It was the best place for entertainment.
JULIETTE: Plus, it was free to get in, and sometimes there was even free food.
JOY DOLO: Ooh, pass me some flamingo! The Coliseum brought Romans together to experience great entertainment, great honor, and great biceps. I'm talking about--
BOTH: Munera.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: Munera is what Romans called gladiator games.
JULIETTE: Don't be fooled, though. These were not like football or basketball games. These games were intense and over the top.
JOY DOLO: There were naval battles where they would fill basins with water and fight on boats. There were also battles with specially-trained gladiators who fought different animals like lions, rhinos, and dogs.
JULIETTE: Oh, my.
JOY DOLO: However, the munera's main event, the icing on the cake, the cherry on the ice cream sundae were the fights between gladiators.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JULIETTE: Like we said, most gladiators were enslaved people.
JOY DOLO: Some gladiators were prisoners of war or criminals that were trained and forced to fight in the munera. Only a very small number of people volunteered because that meant you were choosing to be the status of a slave. But sometimes people couldn't resist an opportunity for fame and celebrity.
JULIETTE: Each gladiator had an advantage, whether it was speed, armor, or fighting skill. And that's why people came from miles around to see who was the best.
JOY DOLO: Even though the fights were pretty violent, it's a myth that gladiators always fought to the death.
JULIETTE: They were trained just to hurt or wound the other gladiator.
JOY DOLO: A defeated gladiator would raise one finger to surrender and was usually granted mercy. It took a lot of money and time to train gladiators how to fight, so the people that ran the fights wanted to keep their gladiators alive.
JULIETTE: Another myth was that all gladiators were men. Some were women.
JOY DOLO: Right. Archaeologists have found ancient stone carvings showing female gladiators battling with shields and swords.
JULIETTE: And people traveled far and wide to get a glimpse of gladiators performing.
JOY DOLO: Even though the fights were often violent, even bloody, kids in Ancient Rome were obsessed with gladiators.
JULIETTE: There are ancient charcoal stick figure drawings that show how much kids loved the gladiator games.
JOY DOLO: They even played with little gladiator action figures made of clay.
JULIETTE: And Roman people loved gladiators. Like, really, really, really loved them.
[CROWD CHEERING]
SUBJECT 1: We love you, Octavius!
SUBJECT 2: Octavius, Octavius, OMG, he looked at me! I'm gonna faint.
SUBJECT 3: That battle was epic.
SUBJECT 4: Sign my goat!
[BLEATING]
JOY DOLO: People would even collect the sweat off of a gladiator after a battle and use it in things like face cream.
JULIETTE: Ew. I definitely don't want any of that sweaty lotion on my face.
JOY DOLO: Well, when in Rome. Mm. So moisturizing. Some of the biggest gladiators had brand endorsements. That means people would have gladiators say how much they loved a product just to get more people to buy it. Like how pro athletes and celebrities endorse products today.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SUBJECT 5: Do you wish you had skin softer than a baby pig's ear? What a tasty little dip for your snackies? Then try Ollie Oil Man's olive oil, the only olive oil that Octavius, the gladiator, uses.
OCTAVIUS: Hi, I'm Octavius, the gladiator, and I use Ollie Oil Man's olive oil for all of my olive oil needs-- fighting, sleeping, eating, and fighting some more.
SUBJECT 5: We even mixed a little sweat from Octavius's last fight. Buy a jug of Ollie Oil Man's olive oil today for the low price of 25 copper coins or one large goat.
[BLEATING]
Buy today!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: Even though the gladiators were really popular, they were still enslaved. One gladiator decided that enough was enough. He decided to lead an uprising and revolt. We'll talk more about that in just a bit.
JULIETTE: Ooh, a cliff hanger.
JOY DOLO: The cliffiest of cliffhangers. But first, let's step in the ring and play.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ALL: (SINGING) First Things First!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: This is the game where we take three things from history and try to put them in order of which came first, second, and most recent in time. Since gladiator fighting was a kind of sport, today we're putting these three sports in order-- tennis, lacrosse, and sumo wrestling. OK, Juliette, have you heard of these sports before?
JULIETTE: Yes.
JOY DOLO: Yes, OK. So which do you think came first, which came second, and which came most recently in history?
JULIETTE: What was the second one that you said?
JOY DOLO: Lacrosse. Do you know what lacrosse is?
JULIETTE: No.
JOY DOLO: So lacrosse is a sport where you have these long sticks that have a net on the end of it. You can think of it like a butterfly net. And then you use the sticks to throw and catch a ball back and forth. It's kind of like lawn hockey, except instead of playing on the ground, you're throwing in the air. Does that make sense?
JULIETTE: Yeah, I think, sumo wrestling came first.
JOY DOLO: OK.
JULIETTE: Because sumo wrestling feels like a very old-fashioned thing. You have the little underpants.
JOY DOLO: The underpants that they wear?
JULIETTE: Yeah. And then the movements seem pretty complex, but also kind of easy if you learn them well.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. Yeah.
JULIETTE: So and then maybe lacrosse, because it sounds like something that maybe great, great-grandparents would have played.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, something from way back in the day. Like, I had to walk in the snow uphill after a lacrosse game.
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: So we have sumo wrestling first and then lacrosse second because it's something that our grandparents played. And then so finally we have tennis.
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. So that seems like it's probably the most like newest one.
JULIETTE: I think because the rackets and the net part, it looks very complicatedly woven, and the balls also seem pretty hard to make.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. Yeah. Like, the technology of the sport seems like it's something from now times and not before times. I hear that. I can get behind that. So we have sumo wrestling and then lacrosse and then tennis. All right, we're going to plug that in, and we'll hear the answers at the end of the episode right after the credits.
JULIETTE: So stick around.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: We're working on an episode all about jobs that used to exist in the past but don't exist anymore today. But we want to know, what jobs do you think will exist in the future that don't exist today? Juliette, what do you think? Any ideas about jobs of the future?
JULIETTE: I feel like it's really hard to find socks that match.
JOY DOLO: Yes. Yes, Juliette.
JULIETTE: I don't know if it's just me, but it's very hard. I have a whole bag of orphan socks.
JOY DOLO: Do you? Can you trace them back from years before? It's like, oh, I remember when I had this sock.
JULIETTE: I had this sock, and it was a unicorn. And it had grippy bottoms. And I got it when I was like four, I think, and it passed away.
JOY DOLO: Oh, RIP, rest in peace, sock. That's too bad. That should be a job. Somebody that goes and finds socks, the missing ones.
Listeners, record yourself describing what new job you think will exist in the future and send it to us at foreverago.org/contact. And while you're there, you can send us episode ideas, questions, and drawings. Like, maybe you want to draw a picture of me drawing a picture of a gladiator. (SINGING) Meta!
CREW: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Forever Ago, we know you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
[JET ENGINE]
COMPUTER VOICE: Forever Ago. I'm their biggest fan. I also love Smash Boom Best, a fan debate podcast for kids and families. Listen, I will play you Smash Boom Best. You will love.
[COMPUTER BEEPING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CREW: To refresh your memory, the ugly duckling goes like this. A bunch of duck eggs hatch, and the cute little ducklings go quack, quack, quack, quack. Mother duck is super happy with her eggs. When crack, the last one explodes. And out comes a--
[BEEPING]
CREW: Zorb! Where did the signal go?
[COMPUTER BEEPING]
Must find Smash Boom Best, now!
CREW: Listen to Smash Boom Best wherever you get your podcasts.
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY DOLO: You're listening to Forever Ago. I'm Joy.
JULIETTE: And I'm Juliette. Today, we're talking about gladiators.
JOY DOLO: Gladiators were trained fighters who lived thousands of years ago in the Ancient Roman Empire. Thousands of people watched gladiator fights for entertainment. They were kind of professional athletes.
JULIETTE: Gladiators were also celebritiesm but most were also enslaved people.
JOY DOLO: There's one enslaved gladiator that is still famous today. His name was--
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SPARTACUS: Spartacus.
JOY DOLO: That's right, Spartacus. To learn more, we talked with Dr. Fiona Radford. She's an expert on Ancient Rome and hosts a podcast all about it called The Partial Historians.
JULIETTE: Fiona says, we remember Spartacus not because of his fighting skills, but because he started a revolution.
FIONA RADFORD: The reason why he became famous is not so much his reputation whilst he was a gladiator, but he becomes famous because he rebelled against the Romans.
JULIETTE: Life for enslaved people in the Roman Empire was grueling.
JOY DOLO: They were forced to work in fields, work in people's homes, or fight as gladiators for entertainment. Most gladiators were not trained fighters, so they had to go to gladiator school. And these schools were more like prisons. These gladiators would train all day learning different combat moves.
JULIETTE: And even though they were celebrities, they did not have any freedom. And Spartacus wanted freedom badly.
SPARTACUS: I've had it. I think it's time for us gladiators to fight back.
FIONA RADFORD: So in 73 BCE, he leads a revolt where he and a bunch of other gladiators in the gladiatorial school where they were training, they break out. They seize weapons, and they go on a bit of a rampage.
SPARTACUS: Gladiators, revolt!
[CROWD CHEERING]
JULIETTE: And they escaped.
JOY DOLO: At first, the Romans didn't take this gladiator rebellion seriously, so they only sent a small army after them. But Spartacus and his small group of fighters defeated that small army, and they didn't stop there.
SPARTACUS: Bring it on.
JOY DOLO: News spread of the gladiators rebellion, and Spartacus's group started to grow. Gladiators and other enslaved people who had escaped and lots of poor people traveled to join Spartacus and his fighters.
SPARTACUS: Are you tired of the Roman Empire? Join my rebellion, and let's fight back together.
JOY DOLO: Soon, his army grew from around 70 people to tens of thousands. Spartacus and his army won battle after battle. And that was an embarrassment for the leaders of the Roman Empire.
FIONA RADFORD: He managed to really give them a run for their money.
JOY DOLO: But in the end, the Roman Empire's much bigger fighting forces overwhelmed Spartacus and his soldiers.
JULIETTE: Spartacus and his army fought hard, but in the end, they were defeated.
JOY DOLO: Even though Spartacus lost, he's still remembered today as a hero, a leader, and someone who fought for freedom.
JULIETTE: Long live Spartacus!
JOY DOLO: The gladiator games continued after Spartacus's rebellion for around another 300 years. But as Christianity became more popular, the games became more frowned upon because they were so violent. Eventually, they were banned about 1,600 years ago.
JULIETTE: But thousands of years later, we're still talking about gladiators and Spartacus. Talk about legendary.
JOY DOLO: (SINGING) Let's talk about it. Talk about being legendary.
[THEME MUSIC]
Gladiators were skilled fighters that fought in arenas for Roman entertainment thousands of years ago.
JULIETTE: Most gladiators were enslaved people, so they were forced to fight.
JOY DOLO: One of these enslaved gladiators, Spartacus, led a famous rebellion.
JULIETTE: And he became a legend, a symbol of fighting against injustice.
JOY DOLO: That's it for this episode of Forever Ago. It was written by me, Joy Dolo, and produced by--
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
JOY DOLO: And--
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
JOY DOLO: Our editors are--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
JOY DOLO: And--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
JOY DOLO: Fact checking by--
JESS MILLER: Jess Miller.
JOY DOLO: Engineering help from Derek Ramirez with sound design by--
RACHEL BREES: Rachel Brees.
JOY DOLO: Original theme music by--
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
JOY DOLO: We had additional production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team.
MOLLY BLOOM: Molly Bloom.
ROSE DUPONT: Rosie duPont.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
LAUREN HUMPERT: Lauren Humpert.
JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel.
JOY DOLO: And--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
JOY DOLO: Beth Perlman is our executive producer and the executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Special thanks to Stacey Jansen and Dr. Petra Greenfield.
JULIETTE: And if you want access to ad-free episodes and special bonus content, subscribe to our Smarty Pass.
JOY DOLO: OK, Juliette, you know what time it is? It's First Things First time. Are you ready to hear the answers?
JULIETTE: Yes.
JOY DOLO: All right. OK, so as a reminder, we're putting sports in order. And you said sumo wrestling, lacrosse, and then tennis. All right, let's see what the reveal reveals! Oh, Juliet, no. Oh, no. You got them all right.
JULIETTE: Wait, really?
JOY DOLO: Yeah! You nailed it.
JULIETTE: I never get those right.
JOY DOLO: You did great! That was amazing! Absolutely spot on. So, OK, sumo wrestling, number one, right on. So, 712 CE, so this Japanese style of wrestling is over 1,000 years old. It started as a part of the Shinto religion as a ritual to entertain gods. Farmers used to have sumo matches to pray for bountiful rice crops and a good harvest season.
Modern sumo matches started in the 1600s as a way to raise money for shrines, temples, or even to build bridges. That's cool. Thousands of years ago, I was probably five around that time, so.
JULIETTE: Wow.
JOY DOLO: I'm pretty old. One would say. I'm thousands of years old. Do you like any of my jokes?
JULIETTE: Yes.
JOY DOLO: Thank you. OK, and then second up is lacrosse, which you're right about too. So that was in the 12th century when that started. It's one of the oldest sports in North America invented by the Haudenosaunee people back in the 12th century. Ooh, that's cool.
The earliest lacrosse matches were huge and included about 100 to 1,000 men. That sounds like chaos. Could you imagine 1,000 people playing lacrosse?
JULIETTE: So much chaos.
JOY DOLO: So much chaos. The playing fields could be miles long and the games could last for days. Games were used for all sorts of purposes, like training people for combat, settling disputes between tribes, or just for fun. Do you think you could play sports for days? One sport for days?
JULIETTE: I don't like any sports with balls in them.
JOY DOLO: Yes.
JULIETTE: I would rather bike.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. Yeah, we could bike for days with 1,000 people. We could do the Tour de France.
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: And then last, certainly not least, is tennis, which you're right is the most recent. And that was invented in 1873. And so tennis, as we know it, AKA lawn tennis, was invented in 1873 in England by Walter Clopton Wingfield.
Earlier versions of tennis can be traced back to 11th and 12th century France, where the game was played with hands instead of racquets on an indoor court. Ow. Wingfield reinvented the game by creating a kit you could set up outside with posts, a net, rackets, and rubber balls. It became super popular with rich people who wanted to host games in their backyards.
Were you surprised by any of these?
JULIETTE: I thought I was going to get lacrosse wrong.
JOY DOLO: Yeah.
JULIETTE: Because I didn't like fully know what it is. So I'm going to do a lot of research.
JOY DOLO: If I look you up in like two years, are you going to be lacrosse superstar?
JULIETTE: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Join us next week for a new episode all about the history of Black Friday.
JULIETTE: Thanks for listening.
[THEME MUSIC]
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