APM Studios
2024 is an election year, where Americans will vote for a new president. Join Joy and co-host to Em as they learn all about what it takes to be President, and hear about Shirley Chisholm, a trailblazer who was the first Black woman ever to run for the office. Plus, a brand new game of First Things First!
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EM: Hey, Joy. Whoa. That's a lot of toys.
JOY DOLO: These aren't just toys, Em. They're members of the official Forever Ago Fan Club. See, we've got my Optimus Prime doll, Car Mechanic Barbie, and of course, my President Abraham Lincoln action figure.
EM: I didn't know they made Lincoln action figures.
JOY DOLO: You can get anything online. Anyway, today we're selecting a new president of the fan club, and it's a tight race. President Lincoln, why should you be the president of the Forever Ago Fan Club? (DEEP VOICE) If chosen to be President of the Forever Ago Fan Club, I will ensure everyone has a tall black hat. (SPEAKING NORMALLY) Sorry, Lincoln. You can't be president. I get terrible hat hair. (DEEP VOICE) Chutes and ladders.
EM: Joy, why don't you run for Forever Ago Fan Club President?
JOY DOLO: (HIGH VOICE) Joy can't be president. She doesn't even have a Barbie Dreamhouse. Plus, her arms and legs are jointed. What's up with that? (SPEAKING NORMALLY) Barbie, I mean, both are technically true, but rude. Anyway, I might be too biased to be president. I'm not just a fan. I also host the show. (HIGH VOICE) If I'm elected President of the Fan Club, I'll make sure everyone wears pink and has a pink Corvette to drive.
EM: Ooh, I want a free Corvette, but make mine purple.
JOY DOLO: (DEEP VOICE) Free Corvette cars in this economy? If I win, I promise to ban mayo from the planet.
EM: Well, I like chipotle mayo, but I also like Corvettes. I'm torn.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, I know who I'm voting for. All those in favor of Optimus Prime as president of the Forever Ago fan Club, squeal.
[SQUEALING]
(HIGH VOICE) All these years of learning car maintenance for this?
[MUSIC PLAYING]
You're listening to Forever Ago from APM Studios. I'm your host, Joy Dolo, and I'm here today with Em from Minneapolis, Minnesota.
EM: Hi, Joy.
JOY DOLO: It's election season here in the US, and this year, it's a big one.
EM: We're electing a new president in the US. We elect a president every four years.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. Being president seems like a tough job, but it has some cool perks.
EM: The president gets to live in the White House in Washington, DC.
JOY DOLO: There are so many cool rooms in the White House. There's a bowling alley and a movie theater.
EM: There's even a flower shop in the basement.
JOY DOLO: There have also been many presidential pets in the White House.
EM: You've got your classic cats and dogs. But did there's also been an opossum, silkworms, and even a raccoon named Rebecca?
JOY DOLO: Opossums, silkworms, and a raccoon named Rebecca? Oh my.
EM: Wild pets and incredible house features aside, being president is a big job.
JOY DOLO: It's a huge responsibility. The president is in charge of the federal government. And that's the government for the whole country.
EM: The president does lots of different stuff, like enforcing laws passed by Congress--
JOY DOLO: --putting together a crew of people who are in charge of different departments like agriculture, energy, or education--
EM: --and meeting with other leaders from around the world.
JOY DOLO: The president is also the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, which includes lots of separate branches, like the Army, Navy, and Coast Guard.
EM: Basically, being president is the biggest government job in the US.
JOY DOLO: Em, I have a question for you.
EM: OK.
JOY DOLO: Would you ever want to be president?
EM: I'm not sure I would want to be president. It just seems like a really big responsibility and really difficult. It seems like it would take up a lot of your time.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, it's like you wouldn't even have time for hobbies or pets or anything else.
EM: Exactly.
JOY DOLO: Would you ever have a special presidential pet?
EM: I would definitely want a horse or maybe a lot of horses and definitely my beloved dog, Moana.
JOY DOLO: What kind of dog is Moana?
EM: She's a German shepherd mix.
JOY DOLO: Nice. How big is she?
EM: She's really big. She's also got some mastiff.
JOY DOLO: Wow. She's huge. What room would you add to the White House?
EM: Well, I know that if I was the president, I would not be a kid. But I don't know. I guess if I lived in the White House, but not necessarily the president, I would add a big climbing structure.
JOY DOLO: Like a climbing room.
EM: Yes, like the rope twisting towers and the slides and stuff. I would definitely like to have one of those.
JOY DOLO: Like a play place.
EM: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, that's great. If I were president, I think the first thing I'd do in office is ban mayonnaise. But hey, that's just me.
EM: Joy, you're never going to get the BLT lovers of America to vote for you with that attitude.
JOY DOLO: You're right. Maybe I'll just stick to banning mayonnaise from my own fridge. Let freedom ring. Anyway, back to your regular presidential programming.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
EM: In the United States, there are a few rules for who can run for president.
JOY DOLO: These rules were set way back in 1787, when our Founding Fathers were coming up with a new government. The United States was a brand new country back then.
EM: Most people lived on farms and got around on horseback or by walking.
JOY DOLO: And there were no TVs, or phones, or computers. It was a really different time back then.
EM: So back to the rules our founding fathers created for who could become president.
JOY DOLO: First rule, to run for president, you must be at least 35 years old.
EM: 35 is such a random age.
JOY DOLO: It kind of is. But some Founding Fathers argued that older people might be more mature leaders.
EM: Rule number two, you must be a natural born citizen. That means you were either born in the US or a US territory, like Puerto Rico.
JOY DOLO: If you were born outside of the US, but have American parents, that counts too.
EM: And finally, rule number three.
JOY DOLO: To become president, you must have lived in the US for at least 14 years.
EM: 14 is a random number too.
JOY DOLO: The Founding Fathers were some random dudes. But the point was, if you're going to be president, you should live in the country you're going to serve and be familiar with its people and government.
EM: That makes sense. So to recap, if you want to be President of the United States, you must be at least 35 years old, be a natural born citizen, and have lived in the US for 14 years.
JOY DOLO: Right. Those are the three rules. You might notice, the rules don't say anything about a person's race, ethnicity, sex, gender, or other characteristics. But even so, for most of US history, every president was a white man.
EM: Until 2008, when Barack Obama was elected president.
JOY DOLO: President Obama was the first person of color to ever hold that office. And I remember in 2008, when I went to go vote, I remember being nervous because I was like, it's my first time doing it. I don't know if I'm going to do it right, and where do I take everything? What district am I in? And then I remember after I voted, being like, that really wasn't that big of a deal. I don't know what I was so nervous about. Are you excited to vote?
EM: Yes, I think so. I think that's just a really great way of making change in your community.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, that's great. Yeah, we should all do that.
EM: So there haven't been any female US presidents yet. But several women have run for president, including Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris, who's running this year.
JOY DOLO: Today, we're going to talk about a person who paved the way for these candidates way back in the 1970s, someone who did something a Black woman had never done before, run for president.
EM: Her name was Shirley Chisholm.
JOY DOLO: Shirley Chisholm is an icon, a visionary. I can't wait to talk about her. But first, let's take a quick break and play--
CREW: First Things First.
JOY DOLO: So this is the game where we take three things from history and try to put them in order of which came first, second, and most recent in time. Today's three things are famous firsts in Women's history, the first woman to fly in a hot air balloon, the first woman to race in a NASCAR race, and the first woman to win a Nobel Peace Prize. What do you think came first, which came second, and which came most recently in history?
EM: This is hard. Wait, was it like a Nobel Prize or a Nobel Peace Prize?
JOY DOLO: Nobel Peace Prize.
EM: That's hard. See, I thought I was kind of an expert on this, but apparently, I'm not. So I think that the first woman to win a Nobel Prize was actually not that long ago, so the first Nobel Peace Prize was probably also pretty recent.
JOY DOLO: Yeah.
EM: But I would probably say the hot air balloon first, then the Nobel Peace Prize, and then the racing.
JOY DOLO: That makes sense. So why hot air balloon first?
EM: I don't know. I feel like I've heard of those, and they're kind of older.
JOY DOLO: Yeah.
EM: Even airships and Zeppelins and things like that are pretty old. So hot air balloons are pretty old. So I kind of thought that would be older. And somehow, I wouldn't think that it would take that long for a woman to ride in a hot air balloon. But I don't know because there were probably some sexist males who were like, this is too dangerous for the women.
JOY DOLO: You can't ride in my hot air balloon. Get out of here with your frilly dress and hat. I'm pretty sure that's what they sounded like too. And then I think it makes sense-- Nobel Peace Prize, it makes sense that it might have been a little bit more recent. And then NASCAR, it's a car. So I think that that would be a car sooner.
EM: It's a car.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. So we have hot air balloon first, Nobel Peace Prize, and then NASCAR race, yeah?
EM: Yes.
JOY DOLO: Great. So we'll hear the answers at the end of the episode, right after the credits.
EM: So stick around.
JOY DOLO: We're working on an episode all about jobs that used to exist in the past, but don't exist anymore. But we want to know, what jobs do you think will exist in the future that don't exist today? Em, what do you think? Any ideas about jobs of the future?
EM: I think a space elevator operator because I've actually read about space elevators. They're a possibility being considered by scientists because they could be cheaper and safer than rockets. And I know that there aren't really elevator operators anymore, but I think there would probably have to be an operator for a space elevator, so maybe a space elevator operator.
JOY DOLO: Would you want that job?
EM: Yes.
JOY DOLO: I do not. I'm afraid of heights. But I support your job choices.
EM: But you wouldn't have to go up there.
JOY DOLO: I would just have to push the button on Earth?
EM: Stay at the bottom and make sure it's stable and secure.
JOY DOLO: I can do that. I think I can do it. I'm still scared, but I'm going to try. Listeners, record yourself describing what job you think will exist in the future and send it to us at foreverago.org/contact. And while you're there, you can send us episode ideas, questions, and drawings like me driving a race car.
EM: So keep listening.
CREW: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Forever Ago, we know you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
CREW: Here we are in Brains On Universe, home to my favorite podcasts, Brains On, Smash Boom Best, Forever Ago. I've found one.
CREW: Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba Brains On.
CREW: Brains On, a science podcast for kids and families.
CREW: Let's start with our pal, the sun. Did somebody call their favorite star? It's me, the sun. The sun is made up of very, very hot--
CREW: What a great show. Need more Brains On now.
CREW: Listen to Brains On wherever you get your podcasts.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: You're listening to Forever Ago. I'm Joy.
EM: And I'm Em. Today, we're talking about the first Black woman to run for president in the US, a trailblazer named Shirley Chisholm.
JOY DOLO: Before the break, we talked about who's able to run for president in the US. The rules say that anyone 35 or older who was born in the US or US territory and has lived here for at least 14 years can become president.
EM: That's a huge part of the US population, somewhere around 160 million people.
JOY DOLO: Even though there aren't any rules about the president's race, ethnicity, sex, or gender, for most of US history, all of the presidents were white men.
EM: And people had a hard time imagining that would ever change.
JOY DOLO: But in the 1960s and '70s, lots of things were changing.
EM: By this time, most Americans had TVs in their home. Families could gather around and watch rock and roll stars perform, like Elvis and the Beatles.
[THE BEATLES, "TWIST AND SHOUT"] Shake it up baby, now, shake it up, baby
Twist and shout, twist and shout
JOY DOLO: But people didn't have cell phones or the internet in their homes. The US was trying to be the first country to send a man to the moon before anyone else did.
EM: And across the US, there were huge demonstrations, rallies, and protests happening.
JOY DOLO: Many of these protests were part of the Civil Rights and Women's movements. Americans were demanding equal treatment, regardless of their race or sex. And they had some big victories.
EM: In 1965, the Voting Rights Act was passed.
JOY DOLO: For many years, there were unfair rules that made it harder for Black Americans to vote. The Voting Rights Act ensured that all Americans could vote, regardless of their race or ethnicity.
EM: A few years later, in 1971, the national voting age was lowered from 21 to 18 years old.
JOY DOLO: Suddenly, millions of young people were able to vote. And in all this change, one woman saw an opportunity. The next year, Shirley Chisholm decided to run for president.
SHOLA LYNCH: It's a really exciting time for politics because there are all these new people participating. And she takes the chance.
EM: That's Shola Lynch. She's a filmmaker who made a documentary about Shirley Chisholm.
JOY DOLO: She loves telling Shirley's story, and we love that she told it to us. Let's back up to the very beginning, way before Shirley decided to run for president.
EM: She was born in 1924, in Brooklyn, New York. When she was little, she went to live with her grandmother in Barbados. That's an island in the Caribbean.
JOY DOLO: Since this wasn't that long ago, we actually have lots of recordings of Shirley herself, talking about her life. Here she is talking about her time in Barbados.
SHIRLEY CHISHOLM: My childhood, I can remember it. It was exciting. We lived on a great big farm. And we had to take care of all of the animals on the farm, the chickens, the goats, the sheep. My life, those early years of my life on the island of Barbados, gave me the spirit, gave to me the spunk, that was necessary to challenge all of these age old traditions. I was never afraid of anything. I was never afraid of anybody. And today, it's the same way. I'm not afraid of anything.
JOY DOLO: When Shirley came back to live in a few years later, she was held back in school because teachers thought she needed to catch up.
EM: Shirley started acting out in class. She couldn't sit still and was distracting her classmates.
SHOLA LYNCH: And one of her teachers said, wait, wait, wait. Before we admonish her, let's test her because I think there may be something going wrong. It turned out that she was very bright and she was bored. And when they put her in her proper class, things ironed out. And she was a beautiful student. She loved school. She loved learning.
JOY DOLO: Shirley loved learning so much that she decided to become a teacher as an adult. And she started getting involved in local politics.
EM: Eventually, she decided to run to represent her neighborhood in the New York State government.
JOY DOLO: Lots of people told Shirley she would never win, that running as a Black woman was a waste of time. Many people thought that America wasn't ready for a Black woman leader.
EM: But she did win and started working in state government.
JOY DOLO: A few years later, she decided to run for an even bigger office, the US House of Representatives. Voters in every individual state elect people to serve in the House of Representatives. And that group works to pass laws for the whole country.
EM: Again, people didn't think Shirley could win, but she had a strategy.
SHOLA LYNCH: No one thought she had a chance, but her and her team had done the analysis of who the voters were, and they were women like herself. So she held coffees all over the district.
EM: In 1968, Shirley Chisholm was the first Black woman ever elected to the US House of Representatives. And she said, it was about time. Here's Shirley after she was elected.
INTERVIEWER: How do you feel being the first Black woman in the House of Representatives?
SHIRLEY CHISHOLM: I have mixed feelings. First of all, I'm very glad to have been able to make history in this country by being the first Black woman. Boys and girls, as far as I'm concerned, actually, it's overdue.
JOY DOLO: Here, here. But unfortunately, some of Shirley's colleagues didn't agree.
EM: Some of the other representatives didn't like the change she represented. And they let her know.
JOY DOLO: One representative in particular couldn't stand that he and Shirley were making the same amount of money. And he never missed an opportunity to tell her.
EM: Shirley was professional but firm, basically telling him, if you don't have anything nice to say to me, then don't speak to me at all.
JOY DOLO: And that's what my mama said to me, too. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. And she did great work in Congress. She helped pass a law so low-income families could afford food. And she worked hard to support students and teachers. She was also a founding member of a group of Black politicians called the Congressional Black Caucus, which is still around today.
EM: Shirley earned the respect of lots of politicians.
JOY DOLO: Four years after she was elected to the House of Representatives in 1972, she decided to run for an even bigger office.
EM: The presidency. The first step was to run in the Democratic primary.
JOY DOLO: A primary is when candidates from different political parties, like Democrats and Republicans, run to be that party's candidate for the presidential election. Shirley was a Democrat running against other Democrats who hoped to run for president in the 1972 election.
EM: And there were a lot of other Democrats running, over a dozen.
JOY DOLO: And even though she had done all of this great work in state government and Congress, people did not take her seriously. Here's Shola again.
SHOLA LYNCH: I think that that is critical, being able to relay the context of what it was like to be a woman and a Black person in 1972. It meant that everything you wanted to do, somebody was like, no. You are not capable.
EM: Some people even accused Shirley of running just to get famous. But she really wanted to help people, especially working people living in neighborhoods like the one she grew up in.
JOY DOLO: She supported programs that would end poverty and improve schools. Here's a clip of her from when she announced she was running for president.
SHIRLEY CHISHOLM: I stand before you today as a candidate for the Democratic nomination for the Presidency of the United States of America. I am not the candidate of Black America, although I am Black and proud. I am not the candidate of the women's movement of this country, although I am a woman, and I'm equally proud of that. I am the candidate of the people of America.
JOY DOLO: Shirley had to fight all through her campaign. She got much less news coverage than other candidates and even had to go to court to be included in a debate with other candidates.
EM: In the end, she came in fourth place in the Democratic primary, which meant that she couldn't go on to run in the general presidential election.
JOY DOLO: But looking back now, it's clear that Shirley was a true trailblazer.
SHOLA LYNCH: She inspired all of these people who had not participated in the political process and in the political system to register to vote, to vote, and also to organize her campaign. The person that stands out the most in terms of that is Barbara Lee. Barbara Lee was a college student. She was a young mother. And she is at Mills College. And Shirley Chisholm comes to speak and says that she's running for president. And Barbara Lee was like, wow, that's exciting. How do I connect with your campaign manager? And Chisholm was like, well, you can be the campaign manager here in this neighborhood, in this area.
JOY DOLO: Fast forward to today, and Barbara Lee is herself a Congresswoman. She's been serving in the US House of Representatives, just like Shirley did, for almost 30 years.
EM: That is inspiring.
JOY DOLO: I know. Hey, Em, what were the rules about who can run for president again?
EM: You need to have been born in the US or a US territory--
JOY DOLO: Check.
EM: --have lived in the US for at least 14 years--
JOY DOLO: Check.
EM: --and be 35 or older.
JOY DOLO: Perfect. I'm 37 and 1/2. Hot diggity dog, it looks like I'm running for president. No Mayo all the way-o. I'll need to design some posters and some buttons. We can rework the Forever Ago T-shirts. I'll need a really big bus, bigger than you think. You think a regular bus is big, I need double that.
The rules about who can be president in the US don't say anything about a person's race, ethnicity, sex, gender or other characteristics.
EM: Still, for most of US history, only white men were elected president or even ran.
JOY DOLO: But in 1972, a Black woman named Shirley Chisholm challenged that history and ran in the Democratic primary.
EM: Even though she didn't win, Shirley blazed a trail for other women and people of color to get involved in politics.
JOY DOLO: This episode was written and produced by--
CREW: Nico Gonzalez Wisler--
JOY DOLO: And--
CREW: Ruby Guthrie.
JOY DOLO: Our editors are--
CREW: Sanden Totten--
JOY DOLO: And--
CREW: Shahla Farzan.
JOY DOLO: Fact checking by--
CREW: Jess Miller.
JOY DOLO: Engineering help from Derek Ramirez with sound design by--
CREW: Rachel Brees.
JOY DOLO: Original theme music by--
CREW: Marc Sanchez.
JOY DOLO: We had additional production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team.
CREW: Molly Bloom.
CREW: Rose DuPont.
CREW: Anna Goldfield.
CREW: Lauren Humbert.
CREW: Joshua Ray.
CREW: Marc Sanchez.
CREW: Charlotte Traver.
CREW: Anna Weggel.
JOY DOLO: And--
CREW: Aron Woldeslassie.
JOY DOLO: Beth Perlman is our executive producer. And the executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Special thanks to Russel Kaplan.
EM: And if you want access to ad-free episodes and special bonus content, subscribe to our Smarty Pass.
JOY DOLO: OK, Em, you ready to hear the answers for First Things First?
EM: Yes.
JOY DOLO: So as a reminder, we're putting these three events in order of when they happened. We have three firsts in women's history today, first woman to fly a hot air balloon, first woman to race in a NASCAR race, and first woman to win a Nobel Prize. And you said hot air balloon first, Nobel Peace Prize second, and NASCAR race third.
EM: Yes.
JOY DOLO: Yes. Final answer. Em, you got it right.
EM: Wait, what?
JOY DOLO: You did it.
EM: Yes.
JOY DOLO: So first up, which you were correct, was the first woman to fly in a hot air balloon.
EM: Yes.
JOY DOLO: Yes. So that was 1784. A French woman named Elisabeth Thible was the first woman to fly in a hot air balloon back in June of 1784. And she was just 19 years old. Back in the late 1700s, hot air ballooning was all the rage and drew big crowds of spectators. This trend was called balloonomania. For her flight, Elisabeth dressed as Minerva, the Roman goddess of wisdom, and performed opera from the balloon. Would you ever do that?
EM: Yes, because I like flying and mythology, and (SINGING) I love to sing. I really like to sing.
JOY DOLO: You better come through with the. (SINGING) I love to sing. (SPEAKING) Awesome. We'll have to get more of that later. So the first woman to win a Nobel Peace Prize was Baroness Bertha Von Suttner, and she was an Austrian writer and activist. And so Bertha won for her anti-war novel, Lay Down Your Arms. The novel went on to be translated into more than 10 different languages and was considered one of the most influential books in Europe at the time.
EM: Dang.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. Go on, Baroness Bertha. Bertha is such a great name.
EM: Yeah, it really is, isn't it?
JOY DOLO: Yeah, 1905. It seems like 1905 name. So last but certainly not least, was the first woman to race in a NASCAR race. And that was in 1949. Sara Christian was the first female driver in NASCAR history, driving her first race back in 1949. And to this day, Sara remains the only female driver to post a top five placement in the Cup Series.
EM: That's interesting.
JOY DOLO: So you're great at guessing. You did a great job. Join us next week for a new episode all about April Fools.
EM: Thanks for listening.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: These aren't just toys, Em. They're members of the official Forever Ago Fan Club. See, we've got my Optimus Prime doll, Car Mechanic Barbie, and of course, my President Abraham Lincoln action figure.
EM: I didn't know they made Lincoln action figures.
JOY DOLO: You can get anything online. Anyway, today we're selecting a new president of the fan club, and it's a tight race. President Lincoln, why should you be the president of the Forever Ago Fan Club? (DEEP VOICE) If chosen to be President of the Forever Ago Fan Club, I will ensure everyone has a tall black hat. (SPEAKING NORMALLY) Sorry, Lincoln. You can't be president. I get terrible hat hair. (DEEP VOICE) Chutes and ladders.
EM: Joy, why don't you run for Forever Ago Fan Club President?
JOY DOLO: (HIGH VOICE) Joy can't be president. She doesn't even have a Barbie Dreamhouse. Plus, her arms and legs are jointed. What's up with that? (SPEAKING NORMALLY) Barbie, I mean, both are technically true, but rude. Anyway, I might be too biased to be president. I'm not just a fan. I also host the show. (HIGH VOICE) If I'm elected President of the Fan Club, I'll make sure everyone wears pink and has a pink Corvette to drive.
EM: Ooh, I want a free Corvette, but make mine purple.
JOY DOLO: (DEEP VOICE) Free Corvette cars in this economy? If I win, I promise to ban mayo from the planet.
EM: Well, I like chipotle mayo, but I also like Corvettes. I'm torn.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, I know who I'm voting for. All those in favor of Optimus Prime as president of the Forever Ago fan Club, squeal.
[SQUEALING]
(HIGH VOICE) All these years of learning car maintenance for this?
[MUSIC PLAYING]
You're listening to Forever Ago from APM Studios. I'm your host, Joy Dolo, and I'm here today with Em from Minneapolis, Minnesota.
EM: Hi, Joy.
JOY DOLO: It's election season here in the US, and this year, it's a big one.
EM: We're electing a new president in the US. We elect a president every four years.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. Being president seems like a tough job, but it has some cool perks.
EM: The president gets to live in the White House in Washington, DC.
JOY DOLO: There are so many cool rooms in the White House. There's a bowling alley and a movie theater.
EM: There's even a flower shop in the basement.
JOY DOLO: There have also been many presidential pets in the White House.
EM: You've got your classic cats and dogs. But did there's also been an opossum, silkworms, and even a raccoon named Rebecca?
JOY DOLO: Opossums, silkworms, and a raccoon named Rebecca? Oh my.
EM: Wild pets and incredible house features aside, being president is a big job.
JOY DOLO: It's a huge responsibility. The president is in charge of the federal government. And that's the government for the whole country.
EM: The president does lots of different stuff, like enforcing laws passed by Congress--
JOY DOLO: --putting together a crew of people who are in charge of different departments like agriculture, energy, or education--
EM: --and meeting with other leaders from around the world.
JOY DOLO: The president is also the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, which includes lots of separate branches, like the Army, Navy, and Coast Guard.
EM: Basically, being president is the biggest government job in the US.
JOY DOLO: Em, I have a question for you.
EM: OK.
JOY DOLO: Would you ever want to be president?
EM: I'm not sure I would want to be president. It just seems like a really big responsibility and really difficult. It seems like it would take up a lot of your time.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, it's like you wouldn't even have time for hobbies or pets or anything else.
EM: Exactly.
JOY DOLO: Would you ever have a special presidential pet?
EM: I would definitely want a horse or maybe a lot of horses and definitely my beloved dog, Moana.
JOY DOLO: What kind of dog is Moana?
EM: She's a German shepherd mix.
JOY DOLO: Nice. How big is she?
EM: She's really big. She's also got some mastiff.
JOY DOLO: Wow. She's huge. What room would you add to the White House?
EM: Well, I know that if I was the president, I would not be a kid. But I don't know. I guess if I lived in the White House, but not necessarily the president, I would add a big climbing structure.
JOY DOLO: Like a climbing room.
EM: Yes, like the rope twisting towers and the slides and stuff. I would definitely like to have one of those.
JOY DOLO: Like a play place.
EM: Yeah.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, that's great. If I were president, I think the first thing I'd do in office is ban mayonnaise. But hey, that's just me.
EM: Joy, you're never going to get the BLT lovers of America to vote for you with that attitude.
JOY DOLO: You're right. Maybe I'll just stick to banning mayonnaise from my own fridge. Let freedom ring. Anyway, back to your regular presidential programming.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
EM: In the United States, there are a few rules for who can run for president.
JOY DOLO: These rules were set way back in 1787, when our Founding Fathers were coming up with a new government. The United States was a brand new country back then.
EM: Most people lived on farms and got around on horseback or by walking.
JOY DOLO: And there were no TVs, or phones, or computers. It was a really different time back then.
EM: So back to the rules our founding fathers created for who could become president.
JOY DOLO: First rule, to run for president, you must be at least 35 years old.
EM: 35 is such a random age.
JOY DOLO: It kind of is. But some Founding Fathers argued that older people might be more mature leaders.
EM: Rule number two, you must be a natural born citizen. That means you were either born in the US or a US territory, like Puerto Rico.
JOY DOLO: If you were born outside of the US, but have American parents, that counts too.
EM: And finally, rule number three.
JOY DOLO: To become president, you must have lived in the US for at least 14 years.
EM: 14 is a random number too.
JOY DOLO: The Founding Fathers were some random dudes. But the point was, if you're going to be president, you should live in the country you're going to serve and be familiar with its people and government.
EM: That makes sense. So to recap, if you want to be President of the United States, you must be at least 35 years old, be a natural born citizen, and have lived in the US for 14 years.
JOY DOLO: Right. Those are the three rules. You might notice, the rules don't say anything about a person's race, ethnicity, sex, gender, or other characteristics. But even so, for most of US history, every president was a white man.
EM: Until 2008, when Barack Obama was elected president.
JOY DOLO: President Obama was the first person of color to ever hold that office. And I remember in 2008, when I went to go vote, I remember being nervous because I was like, it's my first time doing it. I don't know if I'm going to do it right, and where do I take everything? What district am I in? And then I remember after I voted, being like, that really wasn't that big of a deal. I don't know what I was so nervous about. Are you excited to vote?
EM: Yes, I think so. I think that's just a really great way of making change in your community.
JOY DOLO: Yeah, that's great. Yeah, we should all do that.
EM: So there haven't been any female US presidents yet. But several women have run for president, including Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris, who's running this year.
JOY DOLO: Today, we're going to talk about a person who paved the way for these candidates way back in the 1970s, someone who did something a Black woman had never done before, run for president.
EM: Her name was Shirley Chisholm.
JOY DOLO: Shirley Chisholm is an icon, a visionary. I can't wait to talk about her. But first, let's take a quick break and play--
CREW: First Things First.
JOY DOLO: So this is the game where we take three things from history and try to put them in order of which came first, second, and most recent in time. Today's three things are famous firsts in Women's history, the first woman to fly in a hot air balloon, the first woman to race in a NASCAR race, and the first woman to win a Nobel Peace Prize. What do you think came first, which came second, and which came most recently in history?
EM: This is hard. Wait, was it like a Nobel Prize or a Nobel Peace Prize?
JOY DOLO: Nobel Peace Prize.
EM: That's hard. See, I thought I was kind of an expert on this, but apparently, I'm not. So I think that the first woman to win a Nobel Prize was actually not that long ago, so the first Nobel Peace Prize was probably also pretty recent.
JOY DOLO: Yeah.
EM: But I would probably say the hot air balloon first, then the Nobel Peace Prize, and then the racing.
JOY DOLO: That makes sense. So why hot air balloon first?
EM: I don't know. I feel like I've heard of those, and they're kind of older.
JOY DOLO: Yeah.
EM: Even airships and Zeppelins and things like that are pretty old. So hot air balloons are pretty old. So I kind of thought that would be older. And somehow, I wouldn't think that it would take that long for a woman to ride in a hot air balloon. But I don't know because there were probably some sexist males who were like, this is too dangerous for the women.
JOY DOLO: You can't ride in my hot air balloon. Get out of here with your frilly dress and hat. I'm pretty sure that's what they sounded like too. And then I think it makes sense-- Nobel Peace Prize, it makes sense that it might have been a little bit more recent. And then NASCAR, it's a car. So I think that that would be a car sooner.
EM: It's a car.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. So we have hot air balloon first, Nobel Peace Prize, and then NASCAR race, yeah?
EM: Yes.
JOY DOLO: Great. So we'll hear the answers at the end of the episode, right after the credits.
EM: So stick around.
JOY DOLO: We're working on an episode all about jobs that used to exist in the past, but don't exist anymore. But we want to know, what jobs do you think will exist in the future that don't exist today? Em, what do you think? Any ideas about jobs of the future?
EM: I think a space elevator operator because I've actually read about space elevators. They're a possibility being considered by scientists because they could be cheaper and safer than rockets. And I know that there aren't really elevator operators anymore, but I think there would probably have to be an operator for a space elevator, so maybe a space elevator operator.
JOY DOLO: Would you want that job?
EM: Yes.
JOY DOLO: I do not. I'm afraid of heights. But I support your job choices.
EM: But you wouldn't have to go up there.
JOY DOLO: I would just have to push the button on Earth?
EM: Stay at the bottom and make sure it's stable and secure.
JOY DOLO: I can do that. I think I can do it. I'm still scared, but I'm going to try. Listeners, record yourself describing what job you think will exist in the future and send it to us at foreverago.org/contact. And while you're there, you can send us episode ideas, questions, and drawings like me driving a race car.
EM: So keep listening.
CREW: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Forever Ago, we know you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
CREW: Here we are in Brains On Universe, home to my favorite podcasts, Brains On, Smash Boom Best, Forever Ago. I've found one.
CREW: Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba Brains On.
CREW: Brains On, a science podcast for kids and families.
CREW: Let's start with our pal, the sun. Did somebody call their favorite star? It's me, the sun. The sun is made up of very, very hot--
CREW: What a great show. Need more Brains On now.
CREW: Listen to Brains On wherever you get your podcasts.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: You're listening to Forever Ago. I'm Joy.
EM: And I'm Em. Today, we're talking about the first Black woman to run for president in the US, a trailblazer named Shirley Chisholm.
JOY DOLO: Before the break, we talked about who's able to run for president in the US. The rules say that anyone 35 or older who was born in the US or US territory and has lived here for at least 14 years can become president.
EM: That's a huge part of the US population, somewhere around 160 million people.
JOY DOLO: Even though there aren't any rules about the president's race, ethnicity, sex, or gender, for most of US history, all of the presidents were white men.
EM: And people had a hard time imagining that would ever change.
JOY DOLO: But in the 1960s and '70s, lots of things were changing.
EM: By this time, most Americans had TVs in their home. Families could gather around and watch rock and roll stars perform, like Elvis and the Beatles.
[THE BEATLES, "TWIST AND SHOUT"] Shake it up baby, now, shake it up, baby
Twist and shout, twist and shout
JOY DOLO: But people didn't have cell phones or the internet in their homes. The US was trying to be the first country to send a man to the moon before anyone else did.
EM: And across the US, there were huge demonstrations, rallies, and protests happening.
JOY DOLO: Many of these protests were part of the Civil Rights and Women's movements. Americans were demanding equal treatment, regardless of their race or sex. And they had some big victories.
EM: In 1965, the Voting Rights Act was passed.
JOY DOLO: For many years, there were unfair rules that made it harder for Black Americans to vote. The Voting Rights Act ensured that all Americans could vote, regardless of their race or ethnicity.
EM: A few years later, in 1971, the national voting age was lowered from 21 to 18 years old.
JOY DOLO: Suddenly, millions of young people were able to vote. And in all this change, one woman saw an opportunity. The next year, Shirley Chisholm decided to run for president.
SHOLA LYNCH: It's a really exciting time for politics because there are all these new people participating. And she takes the chance.
EM: That's Shola Lynch. She's a filmmaker who made a documentary about Shirley Chisholm.
JOY DOLO: She loves telling Shirley's story, and we love that she told it to us. Let's back up to the very beginning, way before Shirley decided to run for president.
EM: She was born in 1924, in Brooklyn, New York. When she was little, she went to live with her grandmother in Barbados. That's an island in the Caribbean.
JOY DOLO: Since this wasn't that long ago, we actually have lots of recordings of Shirley herself, talking about her life. Here she is talking about her time in Barbados.
SHIRLEY CHISHOLM: My childhood, I can remember it. It was exciting. We lived on a great big farm. And we had to take care of all of the animals on the farm, the chickens, the goats, the sheep. My life, those early years of my life on the island of Barbados, gave me the spirit, gave to me the spunk, that was necessary to challenge all of these age old traditions. I was never afraid of anything. I was never afraid of anybody. And today, it's the same way. I'm not afraid of anything.
JOY DOLO: When Shirley came back to live in a few years later, she was held back in school because teachers thought she needed to catch up.
EM: Shirley started acting out in class. She couldn't sit still and was distracting her classmates.
SHOLA LYNCH: And one of her teachers said, wait, wait, wait. Before we admonish her, let's test her because I think there may be something going wrong. It turned out that she was very bright and she was bored. And when they put her in her proper class, things ironed out. And she was a beautiful student. She loved school. She loved learning.
JOY DOLO: Shirley loved learning so much that she decided to become a teacher as an adult. And she started getting involved in local politics.
EM: Eventually, she decided to run to represent her neighborhood in the New York State government.
JOY DOLO: Lots of people told Shirley she would never win, that running as a Black woman was a waste of time. Many people thought that America wasn't ready for a Black woman leader.
EM: But she did win and started working in state government.
JOY DOLO: A few years later, she decided to run for an even bigger office, the US House of Representatives. Voters in every individual state elect people to serve in the House of Representatives. And that group works to pass laws for the whole country.
EM: Again, people didn't think Shirley could win, but she had a strategy.
SHOLA LYNCH: No one thought she had a chance, but her and her team had done the analysis of who the voters were, and they were women like herself. So she held coffees all over the district.
EM: In 1968, Shirley Chisholm was the first Black woman ever elected to the US House of Representatives. And she said, it was about time. Here's Shirley after she was elected.
INTERVIEWER: How do you feel being the first Black woman in the House of Representatives?
SHIRLEY CHISHOLM: I have mixed feelings. First of all, I'm very glad to have been able to make history in this country by being the first Black woman. Boys and girls, as far as I'm concerned, actually, it's overdue.
JOY DOLO: Here, here. But unfortunately, some of Shirley's colleagues didn't agree.
EM: Some of the other representatives didn't like the change she represented. And they let her know.
JOY DOLO: One representative in particular couldn't stand that he and Shirley were making the same amount of money. And he never missed an opportunity to tell her.
EM: Shirley was professional but firm, basically telling him, if you don't have anything nice to say to me, then don't speak to me at all.
JOY DOLO: And that's what my mama said to me, too. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. And she did great work in Congress. She helped pass a law so low-income families could afford food. And she worked hard to support students and teachers. She was also a founding member of a group of Black politicians called the Congressional Black Caucus, which is still around today.
EM: Shirley earned the respect of lots of politicians.
JOY DOLO: Four years after she was elected to the House of Representatives in 1972, she decided to run for an even bigger office.
EM: The presidency. The first step was to run in the Democratic primary.
JOY DOLO: A primary is when candidates from different political parties, like Democrats and Republicans, run to be that party's candidate for the presidential election. Shirley was a Democrat running against other Democrats who hoped to run for president in the 1972 election.
EM: And there were a lot of other Democrats running, over a dozen.
JOY DOLO: And even though she had done all of this great work in state government and Congress, people did not take her seriously. Here's Shola again.
SHOLA LYNCH: I think that that is critical, being able to relay the context of what it was like to be a woman and a Black person in 1972. It meant that everything you wanted to do, somebody was like, no. You are not capable.
EM: Some people even accused Shirley of running just to get famous. But she really wanted to help people, especially working people living in neighborhoods like the one she grew up in.
JOY DOLO: She supported programs that would end poverty and improve schools. Here's a clip of her from when she announced she was running for president.
SHIRLEY CHISHOLM: I stand before you today as a candidate for the Democratic nomination for the Presidency of the United States of America. I am not the candidate of Black America, although I am Black and proud. I am not the candidate of the women's movement of this country, although I am a woman, and I'm equally proud of that. I am the candidate of the people of America.
JOY DOLO: Shirley had to fight all through her campaign. She got much less news coverage than other candidates and even had to go to court to be included in a debate with other candidates.
EM: In the end, she came in fourth place in the Democratic primary, which meant that she couldn't go on to run in the general presidential election.
JOY DOLO: But looking back now, it's clear that Shirley was a true trailblazer.
SHOLA LYNCH: She inspired all of these people who had not participated in the political process and in the political system to register to vote, to vote, and also to organize her campaign. The person that stands out the most in terms of that is Barbara Lee. Barbara Lee was a college student. She was a young mother. And she is at Mills College. And Shirley Chisholm comes to speak and says that she's running for president. And Barbara Lee was like, wow, that's exciting. How do I connect with your campaign manager? And Chisholm was like, well, you can be the campaign manager here in this neighborhood, in this area.
JOY DOLO: Fast forward to today, and Barbara Lee is herself a Congresswoman. She's been serving in the US House of Representatives, just like Shirley did, for almost 30 years.
EM: That is inspiring.
JOY DOLO: I know. Hey, Em, what were the rules about who can run for president again?
EM: You need to have been born in the US or a US territory--
JOY DOLO: Check.
EM: --have lived in the US for at least 14 years--
JOY DOLO: Check.
EM: --and be 35 or older.
JOY DOLO: Perfect. I'm 37 and 1/2. Hot diggity dog, it looks like I'm running for president. No Mayo all the way-o. I'll need to design some posters and some buttons. We can rework the Forever Ago T-shirts. I'll need a really big bus, bigger than you think. You think a regular bus is big, I need double that.
The rules about who can be president in the US don't say anything about a person's race, ethnicity, sex, gender or other characteristics.
EM: Still, for most of US history, only white men were elected president or even ran.
JOY DOLO: But in 1972, a Black woman named Shirley Chisholm challenged that history and ran in the Democratic primary.
EM: Even though she didn't win, Shirley blazed a trail for other women and people of color to get involved in politics.
JOY DOLO: This episode was written and produced by--
CREW: Nico Gonzalez Wisler--
JOY DOLO: And--
CREW: Ruby Guthrie.
JOY DOLO: Our editors are--
CREW: Sanden Totten--
JOY DOLO: And--
CREW: Shahla Farzan.
JOY DOLO: Fact checking by--
CREW: Jess Miller.
JOY DOLO: Engineering help from Derek Ramirez with sound design by--
CREW: Rachel Brees.
JOY DOLO: Original theme music by--
CREW: Marc Sanchez.
JOY DOLO: We had additional production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team.
CREW: Molly Bloom.
CREW: Rose DuPont.
CREW: Anna Goldfield.
CREW: Lauren Humbert.
CREW: Joshua Ray.
CREW: Marc Sanchez.
CREW: Charlotte Traver.
CREW: Anna Weggel.
JOY DOLO: And--
CREW: Aron Woldeslassie.
JOY DOLO: Beth Perlman is our executive producer. And the executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Special thanks to Russel Kaplan.
EM: And if you want access to ad-free episodes and special bonus content, subscribe to our Smarty Pass.
JOY DOLO: OK, Em, you ready to hear the answers for First Things First?
EM: Yes.
JOY DOLO: So as a reminder, we're putting these three events in order of when they happened. We have three firsts in women's history today, first woman to fly a hot air balloon, first woman to race in a NASCAR race, and first woman to win a Nobel Prize. And you said hot air balloon first, Nobel Peace Prize second, and NASCAR race third.
EM: Yes.
JOY DOLO: Yes. Final answer. Em, you got it right.
EM: Wait, what?
JOY DOLO: You did it.
EM: Yes.
JOY DOLO: So first up, which you were correct, was the first woman to fly in a hot air balloon.
EM: Yes.
JOY DOLO: Yes. So that was 1784. A French woman named Elisabeth Thible was the first woman to fly in a hot air balloon back in June of 1784. And she was just 19 years old. Back in the late 1700s, hot air ballooning was all the rage and drew big crowds of spectators. This trend was called balloonomania. For her flight, Elisabeth dressed as Minerva, the Roman goddess of wisdom, and performed opera from the balloon. Would you ever do that?
EM: Yes, because I like flying and mythology, and (SINGING) I love to sing. I really like to sing.
JOY DOLO: You better come through with the. (SINGING) I love to sing. (SPEAKING) Awesome. We'll have to get more of that later. So the first woman to win a Nobel Peace Prize was Baroness Bertha Von Suttner, and she was an Austrian writer and activist. And so Bertha won for her anti-war novel, Lay Down Your Arms. The novel went on to be translated into more than 10 different languages and was considered one of the most influential books in Europe at the time.
EM: Dang.
JOY DOLO: Yeah. Go on, Baroness Bertha. Bertha is such a great name.
EM: Yeah, it really is, isn't it?
JOY DOLO: Yeah, 1905. It seems like 1905 name. So last but certainly not least, was the first woman to race in a NASCAR race. And that was in 1949. Sara Christian was the first female driver in NASCAR history, driving her first race back in 1949. And to this day, Sara remains the only female driver to post a top five placement in the Cup Series.
EM: That's interesting.
JOY DOLO: So you're great at guessing. You did a great job. Join us next week for a new episode all about April Fools.
EM: Thanks for listening.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
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