Idioms
APM Studios
The cat's out of the bag! We’re back with a brand new episode, and we didn’t cut any corners! This one is all about idioms, those funny expressions that don’t make sense until you know what they’re supposed to mean, like "steal my thunder" or "it's raining cats and dogs." Join Joy and co-host Zyah to learn all about the history behind some of the most common idioms in English. Plus, a brand new game where you'll get the chance to guess the meaning of an idiom in another language!
Audio Transcript
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[DOOR OPENING] JOY: Teddy? Is that you?
TEDDY: Hidey-ho, Joy. Hello diddly doo, Zyah. What brings you two to the official Forever Ago Library?
JOY: Zyah's helping me with my future best-selling book, Quick Snacks and Fun Facts with Joy Dolo.
ZYAH: And we could use your help with some of our research, Teddy.
TEDDY: Sure thing. As the official Forever Ago Librarian, I could talk research until the caterpillars come home.
ZYAH: Caterpillars? I think the phrase is actually, "till the cows come home."
TEDDY: I don't have any cows, Zyah.
ZYAH: Oh.
JOY: Anyway, my book features the best fact and snack pairings in the world. And I'm looking for the best snack to pair with this fun fact. Did you know a group of jellyfish is called a smack?
TEDDY: A snack to pair with a smack fact. Hmm, that's a tricky one, Joy. But I bet we have the perfect book for your research. Let me just check on the shelves.
[BOOKS FALLING]
[GRUNTING]
JOY: Hey, do you have any snack books in that pile? An encyclopedia of snacks, mayhaps?
TEDDY: Hold your kittens, Joy.
ZYAH: It's "hold your horses," Teddy.
TEDDY: Oh, I don't know if I'm strong enough. But that's very kind of you to suggest.
JOY: Hold your horses as an expression, Teddy.
TEDDY: Yeah, OK. Sure, sure. Joy, do you have a system for selecting the best snack fact pairings? When you're writing a book, you don't want to dance by the seat of your pants.
ZYAH: "Fly by the seat of your pants."
TEDDY: [LAUGHS] Oh, that's cute. You think I can fly, too.
ZYAH: That's not what I--
TEDDY: I'm just a librarian, Zyah.
ZYAH: Never mind.
TEDDY: I don't want to be a downer, Joy. No, I just want your book to be the cream of the icing.
JOY: You mean the "cream of the crop?"
TEDDY: Crops don't involve cream, Joy. Icing often does.
JOY: Teddy!
TEDDY: Joy!
ZYAH: Hey, you two. Put a sock in it, would you?
TEDDY: A sock in it? Excuse me. This is a library, not a laundromat.
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY: Welcome to "Forever Ago" from APM Studios. I'm Joy Dolo.
ZYAH: And I'm Zyah.
JOY: And today, we're talking all about idioms. Idioms are expressions that don't make sense until you know what they're supposed to mean. Like when my friends say, "Break a leg, Joy," before I go on stage, they don't actually want me to break a leg. They want me to perform beautifully.
ZYAH: To steal the show.
JOY: "Steal the show" is an idiom, too.
ZYAH: You can't actually steal a show.
JOY: A show is not a handbag or a diamond necklace or a slice of banana cream pie, which is a great snack.
[SCRIBBLING]
It's going in the book.
ZYAH: I'm amped to read your snack fact book, Joy. Too bad Teddy the librarian couldn't help with your research.
JOY: I know. And he does not know his way around idioms. Did you notice that?
ZYAH: Yeah.
JOY: Those idioms that came up in conversation with him, like "hold your horses" and "fly by the seat of your pants," you knew those ones.
ZYAH: Yeah. "Hold your horses" means wait for a second. And to "fly by the seat of your pants" means to do something without any preparation, like to improvise your way through something.
JOY: Which is my favorite way to do things. But I digress. What other idioms did Teddy get wrong, Zyah?
ZYAH: "Till the cows come home," I believe, is one that he got wrong. I can't remember exactly. I think it was till the caterpillars come home? I don't know where he got that from.
JOY: [LAUGHS] Seeing a bunch of caterpillars walk to your house.
ZYAH: That would be weird. It was really funny when he just said, "I don't have any cows." That hit me hard.
JOY: [LAUGHS]
ZYAH: And the "hold your kittens," where does he get this from? We got farm animals switched up for insects and house pets.
JOY: Do you know what the phrase, "till the cows come home" means?
ZYAH: Kind of like, you could do it till the end of the day, pretty much.
JOY: Yeah, till, like, forever.
ZYAH: Like you put the cows out in the morning and you take them back in the evening.
JOY: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. That's what sounds right. It makes sense. Have you ever heard the idiom, like, "you're one smart cookie?"
ZYAH: Yes, I have.
JOY: What is it? What do you think it means?
ZYAH: Like, you're one smart cookie, like you're a smart person.
JOY: Exactly, yeah. A smart person who makes good decisions, you know? Just well-rounded.
ZYAH: Mm-hmm.
JOY: Do you have any idioms off the top of your mind besides, like, one smart cookie, cream of the crop?
ZYAH: "Cat's out of the bag."
JOY: Cat's out of the bag. That's a great one. What does that mean?
ZYAH: The "cat's out of the bag" means the secret is out. Out-- so in this case, think that the secret is, it's like being secure, kept in. No one really knows. And then the cat is the secret. So when the cat comes out of the bag, the secret comes out. Same thing with "spill the beans," in a sense.
JOY: Spill the beans. Yes, that's another one, right. You spilled the beans. The answer is out all over the place.
ZYAH: Or "it's raining cats and dogs."
JOY: [GASPS] I say that all the time.
ZYAH: Really?
JOY: Yeah. Yeah, like when it's just pouring-- because you know Minnesota weather is all over the place. So--
ZYAH: Really?
JOY: Yeah. So you look outside, and it's sunny.
ZYAH: Same thing with PR.
JOY: It's the same in Puerto Rico?
ZYAH: For real. Same thing with avocados.
JOY: It rains avocados?
ZYAH: In a sense. So my house, the neighbor has an avocado tree. And we have a tin roof. So when the avocados fall, it just-- it sounds like someone just-- I don't even know. It's super loud.
JOY: Yeah?
ZYAH: And when the rain and the wind is really heavy, it just practically rains avocados.
JOY: It just-- I'm going to start saying that. Oh, my gosh. Look outside. It's raining avocados.
ZYAH: [LAUGHS] I would love to hear that.
JOY: That sounds like a really delicious problem to have. [LAUGHS]
ZYAH: Put it in your snack book. Put it in your snack book.
JOY: Oh, yeah. We'll put it right on page one.
ZYAH: Idioms can be strange when you think about them, and sometimes, pretty silly. And there are a lot of them.
JOY: Yeah, there are thousands and thousands of idioms in the English language. And a lot of them can be traced back to ancient Rome, ancient Greece, the Bible, or the Renaissance.
ZYAH: They've stood the test of time.
JOY: And we're talking about them today because language is full of history. Every word and phrase we use has a story of where it came from. But unlike dinosaur bones, language doesn't fossilize.
ZYAH: Fossils are the ancient remains of creatures from long ago.
JOY: They're cool because they're records of a very specific moment in time.
ZYAH: A volcano explodes!
[EXPLOSION]
A creature is buried in ash.
[WET THUMP]
We find the remains millions of years later, frozen in time like a snapshot of that era.
JOY: But language is an idea. And it's constantly changing in the minds of the people who use it.
ZYAH: And idioms are especially tricky because they don't always make sense. It's hard to figure out where they came from.
JOY: That said, a few idioms can be traced back to a specific moment in history. When we find a bunch of newspapers, letters, or books that all tell the same story about where an idiom comes from, we can be pretty sure it's correct.
ZYAH: One idiom that has a pretty certain origin story is "to steal someone's thunder!"
[THUNDER]
JOY: Shall we use it in a conversation, Zyah?
ZYAH: Sure.
JOY: OK. Pretend I just showed up at karaoke night with our best friends. Ooh, I cannot wait to sing "How Far I'll Go" from Moana. I've been practicing it in the shower for weeks.
ZYAH: (SINGING) See the line where the sky meets the sea, it calls me.
JOY: [GASPS] Is someone already singing?
ZYAH: (SINGING) And no one knows how far it goes.
JOY: That's my go-to song, Zyah. You're stealing my thunder.
ZYAH: Sorry, Joy. That's my favorite song, too.
JOY: Oh no, you didn't.
ZYAH: (SINGING) If the wind in my sail on the sea stays behind me--
BOTH: (SINGING) --one day I'll know. If I go, there's just no telling how far I'll go. I know--
JOY: Scene. All right, Zyah. How would you define "to steal someone's thunder?"
ZYAH: It means to do something that someone else thinks is their thing.
JOY: Nailed it. "Nailed it" is also an idiom. Zyah didn't literally bust out a hammer and nail at karaoke night. "Nailed it" just means that she did a great job, as usual.
ZYAH: Oh, stop. You might be wondering, where did the idiom, "to steal someone's thunder," come from?
JOY: It all started with one of my favorite things in the world-- a play.
[BARD MUSIC]
The year was 1709. The country, England.
ZYAH: There was no electricity back then, so stages were lit with candles.
JOY: Actors had to make big, dramatic gestures so the audience could see them in the dim candlelight.
ZYAH: And there were no microphones, so actors had to project their voices.
JOY: At that time, a playwright named John Dennis was putting on a play at a popular theater in London.
JOHN DENNIS: This play is a minor bit of genius, if I do say so myself. The words, they just poured forth out of me like water from a spigot.
ZYAH: And there was a big storm in his play.
JOHN DENNIS: I always say the natural world is ripe with drama. Give me thunder. Give me rain!
JOY: To make the storm feel real to the audience, John created a device that made the sound of thunder. This was a big deal because back then, it was hard to make sound effects. And there were no electric amplifiers, so it had to be loud.
JOHN DENNIS: Behold, my thunder-maker. It's quite the invention, if I do say so myself. It involves this sheet of metal and these wooden balls. When I bonk the balls against the metal, it sounds like this.
[THUNDER-LIKE RUMBLING]
ZYAH: When the opening night of the play arrived, the theater was packed.
JOY: The curtains went up. John held his breath. And then--
[THUNDER-LIKE RUMBLING]
His thunder machine worked like a dream. But the rest of the play was a real flop.
ZYAH: It was so unpopular that the play was shut down just a few days later.
[BOOING]
JOHN DENNIS: Ugh. They simply didn't understand my perspective, my brilliance.
JOY: A short while later, that same theater put on a production of Shakespeare's Macbeth. And John went to see it.
JOHN DENNIS: Ugh. Excuse me. Pardon me. Ugh. What must a man do to find a seat?
ZYAH: The play began.
WOMAN: When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
JOY: And then, what sound should go resounding through the theater but--
[THUNDER-LIKE RUMBLING]
John Dennis's ears perked up. His face lit up with rage. That was his sound effect, the one he invented. He leaped to his feet and hollered something like--
JOHN DENNIS: They won't act my tragedy, but they will steal my thunder?
[GASPING]
JOY: And to this day, when someone takes credit for something someone else did first or prevents them from getting the attention and praise they deserve, they're--
[THUNDER-LIKE RUMBLING]
ZYAH: --stealing someone's thunder!
JOY: Has anyone ever stole your thunder, Zyah?
ZYAH: Definitely. In my science or math class, I will have an answer that I really want to say because I'm confident. And then one of my other buddies will raise their hand first. And they get picked, and then they say it. So that's kind of stealing my thunder. But I don't get mad because they're my friends.
JOY: Now you might be thinking, Joy, if there are so many idioms in the English language, are there idioms in other languages, too?
ZYAH: I was actually wondering that.
JOY: Not surprised. My barista tells me I'm quite the mind reader. And I'm sensing that you are hungry for ants on a log with cranberries and almond butter? Yum. Oh, that's definitely going in my snack book.
[SCRIBBLING]
ZYAH: As you were saying?
JOY: Yes, there are idioms in all languages. In Japanese, when you say someone is "eating grass by the side of the road," that means they're wasting time.
ZYAH: And in Farsi, when you hear "a dog doesn't recognize his owner," that means things are chaotic.
JOY: Idioms can be a hard part of learning a new language because they don't make sense unless you know what they mean. Like if I didn't speak English and someone said to me, "the proof is in the pudding," I'd have no idea what they were talking about.
ZYAH: Me, too. I'd be like, what proof? Who put it in my pudding? And where is the pudding? I hope it's chocolate.
JOY: Exactly. "The proof is in the pudding" means you can measure success by the final result. So if my book, Quick Snacks and Fun Facts with Joy Dolo, becomes an international bestseller and I get famous for being a genius, then the proof is in the pudding. The book's success is proof that I'm a genius.
ZYAH: All right, Joy.
JOY: I just get so fired up talking about idioms, and especially idioms from around the world. So today, instead of playing a game of First Things First, let's play--
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: Guess that Idiom.
JOY: It's a game exploring idioms in other languages. Here's how it'll go. We'll hear an idiom in a foreign language and its translation, and guess what it means. Then our foreign language expert will do a big reveal and define it at the end of the show. Sound good?
ZYAH: Yeah
JOY: All right, let's give the Guess that Idiom spinner a twirl and see which language we land on today. Want to do the honors, Zyah?
ZYAH: Sure, here goes.
[TWIRLING]
JOY: And our language is Spanish. Oh, you speak Spanish, don't you, Zyah?
ZYAH: Yes. Well, kind of. I lived in Puerto Rico, so I was around a lot of Spanish-speaking people. And I kind of picked it up. But I'm still in the SSL classes, which stands for Spanish as a Second Language.
JOY: But because you know a little bit of Spanish, I think you might even know this idiom. Do you want to host the game?
ZYAH: Sure! All right, Joy, are you ready to hear our Spanish idiom?
JOY: Yeah. Si, I mean.
ZYAH: OK, this phrase comes to us from Dr. Amelia Tseng. She's a professor of Spanish and linguistics at American University in Washington, DC.
AMELIA TSENG: The idiom I would like to share with you today is called [SPANISH]. It means, "my orange half."
ZYAH: Joy, what do you think the idiom [SPANISH], or, "my orange half," means in Spanish? How do you think it could be used in conversation?
JOY: Oh, those are good questions. OK, my orange half. What's the other half, then? Is it like orange the color or orange the fruit?
ZYAH: Considering that it's half of an orange, I-- logically, it would be of the fruit because you can't split a color in half.
JOY: Zyah, you speak the truth. And your knowledge astounds me. OK, OK. Well, let's think about this, then. So if it's a fruit orange and we split it in half, maybe it's like a love thing, like a partner, like your orange half, you--
ZYAH: That's a really good idea.
JOY: Yeah, so it's like my husband, Graham. He's [SPANISH]. He's my orange half.
ZYAH: That's a really good guess, Joy. Listeners, we want you to guess what [SPANISH], or, "my orange half," means, too.
JOY: If you speak Spanish and know the answer, don't spoil it for others. We'll hear the answer at the end of the show.
ZYAH: And we'll be back after this short break.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY: Hey, "Forever Ago" friends. We love hearing your ideas and questions. So we want to know, what topic would you like to explore on "Forever Ago?" What history would you like to learn more about? Maybe there's a certain invention, person, or time period you're curious about. Whatever it is, we want to hear it. Listeners, send us your episode ideas at foreverago.org/contact.
And while you're there, you can send us your questions, compliments, and fan art. We love getting fan art. We're huge fans of fan art. Give us some fan art. [LAUGHS] Again, send it to us at foreverago.org/contact.
WOMAN: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of "Forever Ago," we know you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
[ROCKET BLASTING OFF]
COMPUTER: Entering Brains On Universe to find my favorite podcasts. "Brains On." "Smash Boom Best." "Forever Ago." [GASPS] Picking up signal.
[BEEPING]
"Smash Boom Best." Best smart, funny debate show.
[BEEPING]
MAN 1: Squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak. Skitter skitter skitter. Tail, tails. Tail turn. Tail turn. Skitter, skitter, skitter. Tail turn.
MAN 2: Is that a rat noise I hear?
[DING]
MAN 1: That is a rat noise.
WOMAN: You know, classic rat noise.
MAN 2: Tail, tail, tail.
MAN 1: Tail tail, tail turn.
WOMAN: Turn, turn, turn, skip.
[BEEP]
COMPUTER: Zorp. Where did the signal go?
[BEEPING]
Must find "Smash Boom Best" now!
[ENGINE FIRING]
WOMAN: Listen to "Smash Boom "Best wherever you get your podcasts.
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY: You're listening to "Forever Ago." I'm Joy.
ZYAH: And I'm Zyah.
JOY: And today, we're talking idioms.
ZYAH: Idioms are common sayings that are usually impossible to understand unless someone tells you what they mean.
JOY: And a lot of them have interesting, sometimes murky, origin stories.
ZYAH: The story behind "to steal someone's thunder" is simple and clear. And historians think it actually happened. But that's rare for idioms.
JOY: Often, their origins or where they came from are hard to pin down. One idiom that has a very unclear origin story is the old classic, "it's raining cats and dogs."
[RAIN STORM]
ZYAH: Oh, my gosh. It's pouring rain. I mean, it's raining cats and dogs. I can't believe it started raining so hard on cue.
JOY: I made it happen. My barista helped me realize I'm a weather whisperer, too. Speaking of weather, I just thought of another fact for Quick Snacks and Fun Facts with Joy Dolo. Did you know that the world's oldest cat lived to be 38 years old?
ZYAH: Whoa, really?
JOY: Yeah. But I digress. Back to "it's raining cats and dogs."
ZYAH: We don't know where it came from. But there are a lot of theories.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY: A theory is like an educated guess.
ZYAH: One theory is that cats and dogs have been associated with bad weather for a long time.
JOY: Odin, the Norse god of war and storms, was associated with dogs and wolves.
[WOLF HOWLING]
ZYAH: And for centuries, sailors were superstitious about cats and associated them with the weather.
[MEOWING]
JOY: They believe things like if a cat sneezed, it would rain, or if it licked itself a certain way, a hailstorm was on its way.
[HAIL FALLING]
But all of these examples are just associations. They just tell us that in some people's minds, weather and cats and dogs are related. There's no concrete evidence that these ideas gave rise to the idiom, "it's raining cats and dogs."
ZYAH: There's also a theory involving thatched roofs in England.
JOY: Yes. So around 500 years ago, in Shakespeare's time, people's houses had roofs made from hay, straw, and other things like that. That's a thatched roof.
ZYAH: And the story goes, cats and dogs like to nestle in these roofs and take naps.
[RUSTLING]
[BARKING]
JOY: But when it started pouring rain, the hay would get all slippery and damp. And cats and dogs would come scrambling out of their napping spots and jump to the ground.
[RAINING]
[ANIMAL NOISES]
ZYAH: Which made it look like it was raining--
BOTH: Cats and dogs.
JOY: Cute story. Almost certainly not true. Well-made thatched roofs wouldn't have gotten wet inside. There just isn't enough evidence to prove that's where the idiom "it's raining cats and dogs" comes from.
ZYAH: And honestly, there are so many better places to nap than in the roof.
JOY: Uh, yeah. So the origin story of "raining cats and dogs" is still a mystery, which brings us full circle to the reality that language doesn't fossilize.
ZYAH: But if we look into the history of an expression, we'll find all sorts of traces of the past.
JOY: But it's hard to find out where things started because language is always shifting and changing.
ZYAH: So if someone says they know the truth about where an idiom came from, be skeptical.
JOY: And you can apply this idea more broadly. Like if someone claims to have the best snack and fact pairings in the world, don't necessarily believe them.
ZYAH: Joy, isn't that you?
JOY: Oh, yeah. Well, OK. Never mind. How about we end on a high note?
ZYAH: End on a high note? Nice idiom, Joy.
JOY: No, literally. Let's do it. Let's hear those karaoke skills.
[SINGING HIGH NOTES]
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY: This episode was written by--
ROSIE: Rosie DuPont.
JOY: It was produced by--
NICO: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
JOY: And--
RUBY: Ruby Guthrie.
JOY: Our editors are--
SANDEN: Sanden Totten.
JOY: And--
SHAHLA: Shahla Farzan.
JOY: Fact checking by--
NICO: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
JOY: Engineering help from Lauren [INAUDIBLE] and Derek Ramirez, with sound design by--
RACHEL: Rachel Brees.
JOY: Original theme music by--
MARC: Marc Sanchez.
JOY: We had additional production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team.
MOLLY: Molly Bloom.
ANNA: Anna Goldfield.
LAUREN: Lauren Humpert.
JOSHUA: Joshua Ray.
MARC: Marc Sanchez.
CHARLOTTE: Charlotte Traeber.
ANNA: Anna Weggel.
JOY: And--
ARON: Aron Woldeslassie.
JOY: Beth Pearlman is our executive producer, and the executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Special thanks to--
[LISTING HONOR ROLL]
Zyah, do you want to give a shoutout?
ZYAH: Yes, I would like to give a shoutout to the Pizza Hut Club and all my friends there.
[LISTING HONOR ROLL]
I would also like to give a shoutout to my friends from [INAUDIBLE], Isabella and Bear. Y'all rock. And I would like to give a shoutout to my parents and my dog. And if you want access to ad-free episodes and special bonus content, subscribe to our Smarty Pass.
JOY: OK, Zyah. Time to finish up.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: Guess that Idiom.
ZYAH: Sweet. As a reminder, we're guessing what the meaning of [SPANISH], or, "my orange half," is in Spanish.
JOY: I thought it meant that it was like your other half, like your partner. Let's hear the answer from Dr. Amelia Tseng.
AMELIA TSENG: So imagine that two people are very much in love. They might say to each other, [SPANISH], "you are my orange half." Turns out in English, we also have something very similar, where we say "my other half." And it's the same idea, this idea that you have a perfect partner out there that will complete you.
JOY: Oh, my gosh. Zyah, I got it right!
ZYAH: Nice!
JOY: [LAUGHS]
ZYAH: Great! Nice job, Joy.
JOY: Thank you. Thank you. You know what really helped me through that? Was telling me about the orange as a fruit and not a color.
ZYAH: Perfect.
JOY: But why is it "my orange half" in Spanish and not just "my other half" like it is in English?
AMELIA TSENG: Well, nobody knows 100% why. But one theory is that it's because oranges are all different. So if you split an orange in half, there's only going to be one other orange half in the whole world that will fit with it perfectly and exactly.
JOY: Oh, I love that. That's so beautiful. Join us next week for an episode all about the history of orchids.
ZYAH: Thanks for listening.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[AUDIO LOGO]
TEDDY: Hidey-ho, Joy. Hello diddly doo, Zyah. What brings you two to the official Forever Ago Library?
JOY: Zyah's helping me with my future best-selling book, Quick Snacks and Fun Facts with Joy Dolo.
ZYAH: And we could use your help with some of our research, Teddy.
TEDDY: Sure thing. As the official Forever Ago Librarian, I could talk research until the caterpillars come home.
ZYAH: Caterpillars? I think the phrase is actually, "till the cows come home."
TEDDY: I don't have any cows, Zyah.
ZYAH: Oh.
JOY: Anyway, my book features the best fact and snack pairings in the world. And I'm looking for the best snack to pair with this fun fact. Did you know a group of jellyfish is called a smack?
TEDDY: A snack to pair with a smack fact. Hmm, that's a tricky one, Joy. But I bet we have the perfect book for your research. Let me just check on the shelves.
[BOOKS FALLING]
[GRUNTING]
JOY: Hey, do you have any snack books in that pile? An encyclopedia of snacks, mayhaps?
TEDDY: Hold your kittens, Joy.
ZYAH: It's "hold your horses," Teddy.
TEDDY: Oh, I don't know if I'm strong enough. But that's very kind of you to suggest.
JOY: Hold your horses as an expression, Teddy.
TEDDY: Yeah, OK. Sure, sure. Joy, do you have a system for selecting the best snack fact pairings? When you're writing a book, you don't want to dance by the seat of your pants.
ZYAH: "Fly by the seat of your pants."
TEDDY: [LAUGHS] Oh, that's cute. You think I can fly, too.
ZYAH: That's not what I--
TEDDY: I'm just a librarian, Zyah.
ZYAH: Never mind.
TEDDY: I don't want to be a downer, Joy. No, I just want your book to be the cream of the icing.
JOY: You mean the "cream of the crop?"
TEDDY: Crops don't involve cream, Joy. Icing often does.
JOY: Teddy!
TEDDY: Joy!
ZYAH: Hey, you two. Put a sock in it, would you?
TEDDY: A sock in it? Excuse me. This is a library, not a laundromat.
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY: Welcome to "Forever Ago" from APM Studios. I'm Joy Dolo.
ZYAH: And I'm Zyah.
JOY: And today, we're talking all about idioms. Idioms are expressions that don't make sense until you know what they're supposed to mean. Like when my friends say, "Break a leg, Joy," before I go on stage, they don't actually want me to break a leg. They want me to perform beautifully.
ZYAH: To steal the show.
JOY: "Steal the show" is an idiom, too.
ZYAH: You can't actually steal a show.
JOY: A show is not a handbag or a diamond necklace or a slice of banana cream pie, which is a great snack.
[SCRIBBLING]
It's going in the book.
ZYAH: I'm amped to read your snack fact book, Joy. Too bad Teddy the librarian couldn't help with your research.
JOY: I know. And he does not know his way around idioms. Did you notice that?
ZYAH: Yeah.
JOY: Those idioms that came up in conversation with him, like "hold your horses" and "fly by the seat of your pants," you knew those ones.
ZYAH: Yeah. "Hold your horses" means wait for a second. And to "fly by the seat of your pants" means to do something without any preparation, like to improvise your way through something.
JOY: Which is my favorite way to do things. But I digress. What other idioms did Teddy get wrong, Zyah?
ZYAH: "Till the cows come home," I believe, is one that he got wrong. I can't remember exactly. I think it was till the caterpillars come home? I don't know where he got that from.
JOY: [LAUGHS] Seeing a bunch of caterpillars walk to your house.
ZYAH: That would be weird. It was really funny when he just said, "I don't have any cows." That hit me hard.
JOY: [LAUGHS]
ZYAH: And the "hold your kittens," where does he get this from? We got farm animals switched up for insects and house pets.
JOY: Do you know what the phrase, "till the cows come home" means?
ZYAH: Kind of like, you could do it till the end of the day, pretty much.
JOY: Yeah, till, like, forever.
ZYAH: Like you put the cows out in the morning and you take them back in the evening.
JOY: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. That's what sounds right. It makes sense. Have you ever heard the idiom, like, "you're one smart cookie?"
ZYAH: Yes, I have.
JOY: What is it? What do you think it means?
ZYAH: Like, you're one smart cookie, like you're a smart person.
JOY: Exactly, yeah. A smart person who makes good decisions, you know? Just well-rounded.
ZYAH: Mm-hmm.
JOY: Do you have any idioms off the top of your mind besides, like, one smart cookie, cream of the crop?
ZYAH: "Cat's out of the bag."
JOY: Cat's out of the bag. That's a great one. What does that mean?
ZYAH: The "cat's out of the bag" means the secret is out. Out-- so in this case, think that the secret is, it's like being secure, kept in. No one really knows. And then the cat is the secret. So when the cat comes out of the bag, the secret comes out. Same thing with "spill the beans," in a sense.
JOY: Spill the beans. Yes, that's another one, right. You spilled the beans. The answer is out all over the place.
ZYAH: Or "it's raining cats and dogs."
JOY: [GASPS] I say that all the time.
ZYAH: Really?
JOY: Yeah. Yeah, like when it's just pouring-- because you know Minnesota weather is all over the place. So--
ZYAH: Really?
JOY: Yeah. So you look outside, and it's sunny.
ZYAH: Same thing with PR.
JOY: It's the same in Puerto Rico?
ZYAH: For real. Same thing with avocados.
JOY: It rains avocados?
ZYAH: In a sense. So my house, the neighbor has an avocado tree. And we have a tin roof. So when the avocados fall, it just-- it sounds like someone just-- I don't even know. It's super loud.
JOY: Yeah?
ZYAH: And when the rain and the wind is really heavy, it just practically rains avocados.
JOY: It just-- I'm going to start saying that. Oh, my gosh. Look outside. It's raining avocados.
ZYAH: [LAUGHS] I would love to hear that.
JOY: That sounds like a really delicious problem to have. [LAUGHS]
ZYAH: Put it in your snack book. Put it in your snack book.
JOY: Oh, yeah. We'll put it right on page one.
ZYAH: Idioms can be strange when you think about them, and sometimes, pretty silly. And there are a lot of them.
JOY: Yeah, there are thousands and thousands of idioms in the English language. And a lot of them can be traced back to ancient Rome, ancient Greece, the Bible, or the Renaissance.
ZYAH: They've stood the test of time.
JOY: And we're talking about them today because language is full of history. Every word and phrase we use has a story of where it came from. But unlike dinosaur bones, language doesn't fossilize.
ZYAH: Fossils are the ancient remains of creatures from long ago.
JOY: They're cool because they're records of a very specific moment in time.
ZYAH: A volcano explodes!
[EXPLOSION]
A creature is buried in ash.
[WET THUMP]
We find the remains millions of years later, frozen in time like a snapshot of that era.
JOY: But language is an idea. And it's constantly changing in the minds of the people who use it.
ZYAH: And idioms are especially tricky because they don't always make sense. It's hard to figure out where they came from.
JOY: That said, a few idioms can be traced back to a specific moment in history. When we find a bunch of newspapers, letters, or books that all tell the same story about where an idiom comes from, we can be pretty sure it's correct.
ZYAH: One idiom that has a pretty certain origin story is "to steal someone's thunder!"
[THUNDER]
JOY: Shall we use it in a conversation, Zyah?
ZYAH: Sure.
JOY: OK. Pretend I just showed up at karaoke night with our best friends. Ooh, I cannot wait to sing "How Far I'll Go" from Moana. I've been practicing it in the shower for weeks.
ZYAH: (SINGING) See the line where the sky meets the sea, it calls me.
JOY: [GASPS] Is someone already singing?
ZYAH: (SINGING) And no one knows how far it goes.
JOY: That's my go-to song, Zyah. You're stealing my thunder.
ZYAH: Sorry, Joy. That's my favorite song, too.
JOY: Oh no, you didn't.
ZYAH: (SINGING) If the wind in my sail on the sea stays behind me--
BOTH: (SINGING) --one day I'll know. If I go, there's just no telling how far I'll go. I know--
JOY: Scene. All right, Zyah. How would you define "to steal someone's thunder?"
ZYAH: It means to do something that someone else thinks is their thing.
JOY: Nailed it. "Nailed it" is also an idiom. Zyah didn't literally bust out a hammer and nail at karaoke night. "Nailed it" just means that she did a great job, as usual.
ZYAH: Oh, stop. You might be wondering, where did the idiom, "to steal someone's thunder," come from?
JOY: It all started with one of my favorite things in the world-- a play.
[BARD MUSIC]
The year was 1709. The country, England.
ZYAH: There was no electricity back then, so stages were lit with candles.
JOY: Actors had to make big, dramatic gestures so the audience could see them in the dim candlelight.
ZYAH: And there were no microphones, so actors had to project their voices.
JOY: At that time, a playwright named John Dennis was putting on a play at a popular theater in London.
JOHN DENNIS: This play is a minor bit of genius, if I do say so myself. The words, they just poured forth out of me like water from a spigot.
ZYAH: And there was a big storm in his play.
JOHN DENNIS: I always say the natural world is ripe with drama. Give me thunder. Give me rain!
JOY: To make the storm feel real to the audience, John created a device that made the sound of thunder. This was a big deal because back then, it was hard to make sound effects. And there were no electric amplifiers, so it had to be loud.
JOHN DENNIS: Behold, my thunder-maker. It's quite the invention, if I do say so myself. It involves this sheet of metal and these wooden balls. When I bonk the balls against the metal, it sounds like this.
[THUNDER-LIKE RUMBLING]
ZYAH: When the opening night of the play arrived, the theater was packed.
JOY: The curtains went up. John held his breath. And then--
[THUNDER-LIKE RUMBLING]
His thunder machine worked like a dream. But the rest of the play was a real flop.
ZYAH: It was so unpopular that the play was shut down just a few days later.
[BOOING]
JOHN DENNIS: Ugh. They simply didn't understand my perspective, my brilliance.
JOY: A short while later, that same theater put on a production of Shakespeare's Macbeth. And John went to see it.
JOHN DENNIS: Ugh. Excuse me. Pardon me. Ugh. What must a man do to find a seat?
ZYAH: The play began.
WOMAN: When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
JOY: And then, what sound should go resounding through the theater but--
[THUNDER-LIKE RUMBLING]
John Dennis's ears perked up. His face lit up with rage. That was his sound effect, the one he invented. He leaped to his feet and hollered something like--
JOHN DENNIS: They won't act my tragedy, but they will steal my thunder?
[GASPING]
JOY: And to this day, when someone takes credit for something someone else did first or prevents them from getting the attention and praise they deserve, they're--
[THUNDER-LIKE RUMBLING]
ZYAH: --stealing someone's thunder!
JOY: Has anyone ever stole your thunder, Zyah?
ZYAH: Definitely. In my science or math class, I will have an answer that I really want to say because I'm confident. And then one of my other buddies will raise their hand first. And they get picked, and then they say it. So that's kind of stealing my thunder. But I don't get mad because they're my friends.
JOY: Now you might be thinking, Joy, if there are so many idioms in the English language, are there idioms in other languages, too?
ZYAH: I was actually wondering that.
JOY: Not surprised. My barista tells me I'm quite the mind reader. And I'm sensing that you are hungry for ants on a log with cranberries and almond butter? Yum. Oh, that's definitely going in my snack book.
[SCRIBBLING]
ZYAH: As you were saying?
JOY: Yes, there are idioms in all languages. In Japanese, when you say someone is "eating grass by the side of the road," that means they're wasting time.
ZYAH: And in Farsi, when you hear "a dog doesn't recognize his owner," that means things are chaotic.
JOY: Idioms can be a hard part of learning a new language because they don't make sense unless you know what they mean. Like if I didn't speak English and someone said to me, "the proof is in the pudding," I'd have no idea what they were talking about.
ZYAH: Me, too. I'd be like, what proof? Who put it in my pudding? And where is the pudding? I hope it's chocolate.
JOY: Exactly. "The proof is in the pudding" means you can measure success by the final result. So if my book, Quick Snacks and Fun Facts with Joy Dolo, becomes an international bestseller and I get famous for being a genius, then the proof is in the pudding. The book's success is proof that I'm a genius.
ZYAH: All right, Joy.
JOY: I just get so fired up talking about idioms, and especially idioms from around the world. So today, instead of playing a game of First Things First, let's play--
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: Guess that Idiom.
JOY: It's a game exploring idioms in other languages. Here's how it'll go. We'll hear an idiom in a foreign language and its translation, and guess what it means. Then our foreign language expert will do a big reveal and define it at the end of the show. Sound good?
ZYAH: Yeah
JOY: All right, let's give the Guess that Idiom spinner a twirl and see which language we land on today. Want to do the honors, Zyah?
ZYAH: Sure, here goes.
[TWIRLING]
JOY: And our language is Spanish. Oh, you speak Spanish, don't you, Zyah?
ZYAH: Yes. Well, kind of. I lived in Puerto Rico, so I was around a lot of Spanish-speaking people. And I kind of picked it up. But I'm still in the SSL classes, which stands for Spanish as a Second Language.
JOY: But because you know a little bit of Spanish, I think you might even know this idiom. Do you want to host the game?
ZYAH: Sure! All right, Joy, are you ready to hear our Spanish idiom?
JOY: Yeah. Si, I mean.
ZYAH: OK, this phrase comes to us from Dr. Amelia Tseng. She's a professor of Spanish and linguistics at American University in Washington, DC.
AMELIA TSENG: The idiom I would like to share with you today is called [SPANISH]. It means, "my orange half."
ZYAH: Joy, what do you think the idiom [SPANISH], or, "my orange half," means in Spanish? How do you think it could be used in conversation?
JOY: Oh, those are good questions. OK, my orange half. What's the other half, then? Is it like orange the color or orange the fruit?
ZYAH: Considering that it's half of an orange, I-- logically, it would be of the fruit because you can't split a color in half.
JOY: Zyah, you speak the truth. And your knowledge astounds me. OK, OK. Well, let's think about this, then. So if it's a fruit orange and we split it in half, maybe it's like a love thing, like a partner, like your orange half, you--
ZYAH: That's a really good idea.
JOY: Yeah, so it's like my husband, Graham. He's [SPANISH]. He's my orange half.
ZYAH: That's a really good guess, Joy. Listeners, we want you to guess what [SPANISH], or, "my orange half," means, too.
JOY: If you speak Spanish and know the answer, don't spoil it for others. We'll hear the answer at the end of the show.
ZYAH: And we'll be back after this short break.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY: Hey, "Forever Ago" friends. We love hearing your ideas and questions. So we want to know, what topic would you like to explore on "Forever Ago?" What history would you like to learn more about? Maybe there's a certain invention, person, or time period you're curious about. Whatever it is, we want to hear it. Listeners, send us your episode ideas at foreverago.org/contact.
And while you're there, you can send us your questions, compliments, and fan art. We love getting fan art. We're huge fans of fan art. Give us some fan art. [LAUGHS] Again, send it to us at foreverago.org/contact.
WOMAN: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of "Forever Ago," we know you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
[ROCKET BLASTING OFF]
COMPUTER: Entering Brains On Universe to find my favorite podcasts. "Brains On." "Smash Boom Best." "Forever Ago." [GASPS] Picking up signal.
[BEEPING]
"Smash Boom Best." Best smart, funny debate show.
[BEEPING]
MAN 1: Squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak. Skitter skitter skitter. Tail, tails. Tail turn. Tail turn. Skitter, skitter, skitter. Tail turn.
MAN 2: Is that a rat noise I hear?
[DING]
MAN 1: That is a rat noise.
WOMAN: You know, classic rat noise.
MAN 2: Tail, tail, tail.
MAN 1: Tail tail, tail turn.
WOMAN: Turn, turn, turn, skip.
[BEEP]
COMPUTER: Zorp. Where did the signal go?
[BEEPING]
Must find "Smash Boom Best" now!
[ENGINE FIRING]
WOMAN: Listen to "Smash Boom "Best wherever you get your podcasts.
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY: You're listening to "Forever Ago." I'm Joy.
ZYAH: And I'm Zyah.
JOY: And today, we're talking idioms.
ZYAH: Idioms are common sayings that are usually impossible to understand unless someone tells you what they mean.
JOY: And a lot of them have interesting, sometimes murky, origin stories.
ZYAH: The story behind "to steal someone's thunder" is simple and clear. And historians think it actually happened. But that's rare for idioms.
JOY: Often, their origins or where they came from are hard to pin down. One idiom that has a very unclear origin story is the old classic, "it's raining cats and dogs."
[RAIN STORM]
ZYAH: Oh, my gosh. It's pouring rain. I mean, it's raining cats and dogs. I can't believe it started raining so hard on cue.
JOY: I made it happen. My barista helped me realize I'm a weather whisperer, too. Speaking of weather, I just thought of another fact for Quick Snacks and Fun Facts with Joy Dolo. Did you know that the world's oldest cat lived to be 38 years old?
ZYAH: Whoa, really?
JOY: Yeah. But I digress. Back to "it's raining cats and dogs."
ZYAH: We don't know where it came from. But there are a lot of theories.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY: A theory is like an educated guess.
ZYAH: One theory is that cats and dogs have been associated with bad weather for a long time.
JOY: Odin, the Norse god of war and storms, was associated with dogs and wolves.
[WOLF HOWLING]
ZYAH: And for centuries, sailors were superstitious about cats and associated them with the weather.
[MEOWING]
JOY: They believe things like if a cat sneezed, it would rain, or if it licked itself a certain way, a hailstorm was on its way.
[HAIL FALLING]
But all of these examples are just associations. They just tell us that in some people's minds, weather and cats and dogs are related. There's no concrete evidence that these ideas gave rise to the idiom, "it's raining cats and dogs."
ZYAH: There's also a theory involving thatched roofs in England.
JOY: Yes. So around 500 years ago, in Shakespeare's time, people's houses had roofs made from hay, straw, and other things like that. That's a thatched roof.
ZYAH: And the story goes, cats and dogs like to nestle in these roofs and take naps.
[RUSTLING]
[BARKING]
JOY: But when it started pouring rain, the hay would get all slippery and damp. And cats and dogs would come scrambling out of their napping spots and jump to the ground.
[RAINING]
[ANIMAL NOISES]
ZYAH: Which made it look like it was raining--
BOTH: Cats and dogs.
JOY: Cute story. Almost certainly not true. Well-made thatched roofs wouldn't have gotten wet inside. There just isn't enough evidence to prove that's where the idiom "it's raining cats and dogs" comes from.
ZYAH: And honestly, there are so many better places to nap than in the roof.
JOY: Uh, yeah. So the origin story of "raining cats and dogs" is still a mystery, which brings us full circle to the reality that language doesn't fossilize.
ZYAH: But if we look into the history of an expression, we'll find all sorts of traces of the past.
JOY: But it's hard to find out where things started because language is always shifting and changing.
ZYAH: So if someone says they know the truth about where an idiom came from, be skeptical.
JOY: And you can apply this idea more broadly. Like if someone claims to have the best snack and fact pairings in the world, don't necessarily believe them.
ZYAH: Joy, isn't that you?
JOY: Oh, yeah. Well, OK. Never mind. How about we end on a high note?
ZYAH: End on a high note? Nice idiom, Joy.
JOY: No, literally. Let's do it. Let's hear those karaoke skills.
[SINGING HIGH NOTES]
[THEME MUSIC]
JOY: This episode was written by--
ROSIE: Rosie DuPont.
JOY: It was produced by--
NICO: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
JOY: And--
RUBY: Ruby Guthrie.
JOY: Our editors are--
SANDEN: Sanden Totten.
JOY: And--
SHAHLA: Shahla Farzan.
JOY: Fact checking by--
NICO: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
JOY: Engineering help from Lauren [INAUDIBLE] and Derek Ramirez, with sound design by--
RACHEL: Rachel Brees.
JOY: Original theme music by--
MARC: Marc Sanchez.
JOY: We had additional production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team.
MOLLY: Molly Bloom.
ANNA: Anna Goldfield.
LAUREN: Lauren Humpert.
JOSHUA: Joshua Ray.
MARC: Marc Sanchez.
CHARLOTTE: Charlotte Traeber.
ANNA: Anna Weggel.
JOY: And--
ARON: Aron Woldeslassie.
JOY: Beth Pearlman is our executive producer, and the executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Special thanks to--
[LISTING HONOR ROLL]
Zyah, do you want to give a shoutout?
ZYAH: Yes, I would like to give a shoutout to the Pizza Hut Club and all my friends there.
[LISTING HONOR ROLL]
I would also like to give a shoutout to my friends from [INAUDIBLE], Isabella and Bear. Y'all rock. And I would like to give a shoutout to my parents and my dog. And if you want access to ad-free episodes and special bonus content, subscribe to our Smarty Pass.
JOY: OK, Zyah. Time to finish up.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: Guess that Idiom.
ZYAH: Sweet. As a reminder, we're guessing what the meaning of [SPANISH], or, "my orange half," is in Spanish.
JOY: I thought it meant that it was like your other half, like your partner. Let's hear the answer from Dr. Amelia Tseng.
AMELIA TSENG: So imagine that two people are very much in love. They might say to each other, [SPANISH], "you are my orange half." Turns out in English, we also have something very similar, where we say "my other half." And it's the same idea, this idea that you have a perfect partner out there that will complete you.
JOY: Oh, my gosh. Zyah, I got it right!
ZYAH: Nice!
JOY: [LAUGHS]
ZYAH: Great! Nice job, Joy.
JOY: Thank you. Thank you. You know what really helped me through that? Was telling me about the orange as a fruit and not a color.
ZYAH: Perfect.
JOY: But why is it "my orange half" in Spanish and not just "my other half" like it is in English?
AMELIA TSENG: Well, nobody knows 100% why. But one theory is that it's because oranges are all different. So if you split an orange in half, there's only going to be one other orange half in the whole world that will fit with it perfectly and exactly.
JOY: Oh, I love that. That's so beautiful. Join us next week for an episode all about the history of orchids.
ZYAH: Thanks for listening.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[AUDIO LOGO]
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