Why are we afraid of the dark?

SPEAKER: You're listening to Brains On, where we're serious about being curious.

SPEAKER: Brains On is supported in part by a grant from the National Science Foundation.

MR. BONEJANGLES: Why, hello there. Bone-jour. Yes, it's me, everyone's favorite tap dancing skeleton, who's skulks around Brains On headquarters-- they keep me in the vents-- Mr. Bonejangles. Welcome to my bone-schlepping. Spooky, isn't it?

Well, I am a bone-afide creepy interior decorator. I had these cobwebs imported from the caves of Croatia. Nice, huh? Oh, that? It's a reclinable tombstone for lounging. It's a Bonejangles family scareloo.

I know many of you like to decorate for the spooky season. But for me, this is a way of life. So I, Mr. Bonejangles, say to you, why not embrace the dark all year round? I've heard some of you are afraid of the dark. Perhaps, you're ribbing me because the dark is truly a wonder.

But if it's a little too spine-tingling for you, we'll just light a candle, and, voila, dark with a dash of light. The soft glow of candlelight really accentuates my bone structure, does it not? These cheekbones could slice cheese. Is that the saying? Anyway, my cheekbones, they're gorgeous.

Back to the subject at hand. Look, a bat family has decided to make a home for themselves at the top of my armoire. This one's named Batty. They love the dark, too. Oh, mandible. That reminds me, I'm late for their daily dusk serenade. They love to hear me sing. Need to warm up for a second.

[VOCALIZING]

(SINGING) Oh, tip toe through the tombstones, through the darkness, that's where I'll be. Come tiptoe through the tombstones with me.

Oh, the bats love this one. All together now.

(SINGING) Tiptoe through the tombstones. Here we go now.

[THEME MUSIC]

MOLLY: You're listening to Brains On from APM Studios. I'm Molly Bloom, and I'm here today with Sasha from New York City. Hi, Sasha.

SASHA: Hi, Molly.

MOLLY: So, Sasha, it's officially fall now. Where I live in Minnesota, we're getting into the time of year where the days are getting shorter, the sun setting earlier and rising later.

SASHA: Depending on where you live, the leaves might be turning colors, and the weather might be getting chillier.

MOLLY: Right. This is the time of year when I love carving pumpkins, drinking cider, and getting out my warm, woolly sweaters. So, Sasha, I'm wondering, do you have any traditions in the fall?

SASHA: Yeah, when I was younger, me and my family and my friends we would get together, and we either go to a farm or a pumpkin patch where there'd be a fall festival. We would go on horse rides. We would join hay rides. I would run through mazes with my friend going crazy, and it was really, really fun. Also, there was bouncy castles-- bouncy castles on a farm. Very good idea.

MOLLY: So that's what you used to do. It sounds so fun. Do you have any current fall traditions in your family or things you like to do in the fall?

SASHA: Well, I do like to, sometimes, go to a Central Park and jump in the big piles of leaves that some people leave.

MOLLY: Yes.

SASHA: That's fun. And one thing I really love doing is going on walks in the fall because I love how it feels so nice and chilly. And when the sun sets and we're on the reservoir, it's a really, really beautiful.

MOLLY: Yeah, the way the light is in the fall, where it's sort of low in the sky and the shadows are long, I love a day like that and the crunchy leaves. I'm a big fall fan. So are there things related to Halloween, like spooky season that you enjoy?

SASHA: I mean, I love going out trick or treating with my friends and, sometimes, scaring people, jumping out from behind corners. That's fun. I am a little bit scared of spiders. But when it comes to just walking around on Halloween, I forget all of that, and I just have a lot of fun. And I like the candy. The candy is one of the best parts.

MOLLY: Absolutely. Well, I also love trick or treating and dressing up. I love carving pumpkins. So much fun stuff and Halloween and spooky season. And you know, when the days get shorter and the nights get longer, lots of cultures celebrate spooky things. But that darkness isn't all tricks and treats. Lots of us think the dark is, kind of, scary. In fact, this episode was inspired by a question from a listener named Olivia.

OLIVIA: Hi. My name is Olivia, and I'm from Sacramento, California. My question is, why are people afraid of the dark?

MOLLY: So, Sasha, what about you? Do you feel afraid of the dark sometimes?

SASHA: Yes, I definitely do feel afraid of the dark sometimes. Like when I'm getting into my bed, I'm always scared of what's lurking and is going to jump out on me. And that is always a little freaky. But what I do is, usually, I just stare into the darkness long enough, then it becomes lighter. And I like it a lot more.

And sometimes, I do take deep breaths, and then I start looking into the darkness. I just feel like just staring straight into it helps a lot because it helps you get adjusted quicker. And then once that's finished, it's like this really, really cool gray color all over, and I really like it.

SPEAKERS: Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, Brains On.

MOLLY: All of these feelings are super common. Scientists have studied this and found that more than 70% of kids are afraid of the dark.

SANDY: Imagine your classroom, right? Imagine all the people you know. So, three out of every four kids have experienced and expressed a fear of the dark.

MOLLY: That's Dr. Sandy Pimentel. She's a psychologist at Montefiore Medical Center in New York City.

SASHA: And when it comes to why some people are afraid of the dark, Sandy says it has a lot to do with our early human ancestors and how they evolved or changed over time.

SANDY: What we know is that, if we think about evolution and if we think about survival and our brains were developing, to keep us safe.

MOLLY: It probably went like this. Millions of years ago, our ancestors were surrounded by danger, like hungry animals that wanted to eat them. So they developed certain behaviors to help keep them out of trouble. For example, humans aren't great at seeing in the dark.

SASHA: And back then, there were no streetlights or even candles or lamps, so the night was dark.

SPEAKER: Wow, what a long day of walking upright and using stone tools. I'm beat.

SPEAKER: Looks like the sun's going down. We better head back to the cave before it gets dark.

SPEAKER: What's the rush? I love watching the sunset.

SPEAKER: I really, really think we should get back now. It's starting to get dark, and I can barely see my spear in front of my face.

SPEAKER: Don't get your bare skin in a bunch. We'll be fine.

[GROWLING]

SPEAKER: What was that?

SPEAKER: I think it's a--

BOTH: Saber tooth tiger. Run.

SASHA: Sandy says being afraid of the dark kept our ancestors safe.

SANDY: And so if we think about the nighttime, it was more vulnerable to be out there. And so the fear of nighttime and getting that heightened awareness and that hypervigilance or that wanting to be on the lookout for threats, that was actually pretty adaptive and pretty good for our survival.

SASHA: The humans who were afraid were more likely to play it safe. And that means they were more likely to survive and pass on those traits to their kids.

MOLLY: Being afraid of the dark is just one example of what many psychologists call a prepared fear.

SASHA: This is one idea that psychologists have about how fear works.

MOLLY: And it says that we're more likely to be afraid of things that were dangerous to early humans.

SASHA: Humans have lots of prepared fears, like height, spiders, snakes, and the dark.

MOLLY: These are all things that were dangerous for early humans. And scientists think being afraid of these things probably helped our ancestors survive.

SASHA: Right. We're not born afraid of the dark, but it's likely that we'll develop a fear of it when we're little.

MOLLY: This fear is usually triggered by something in our environment, like seeing a scary movie where a monster comes out of the dark, or having an older sibling who's afraid of the dark.

SASHA: Again, this is one idea scientists have about how fear works.

MOLLY: Another idea is that we learn this from others or that we're afraid of the unknown. And maybe because we can't see well in the dark, our brains imagine all kinds of scary things.

SASHA: But the truth is, we don't exactly know for sure. It's something we're still figuring out.

SPEAKER: Brains, Brains, Brains On.

MOLLY: So being afraid of the dark is something that lots of us experience. It's totally normal.

SASHA: But if you want to feel a little more comfortable in the dark, Sandy says a little practice can go a long way.

SANDY: OK, how about, can you handle being in the dark for ten seconds? Well, I can do that, or nope, I can't do that. All right, well, let's test out can you handle being in the dark for one second. Turn the light off, turn the light on, and we test out little by little being in the dark, so practicing and really looking at it as a challenge that you can get better at just like anything else.

MOLLY: But facing your fears doesn't always have to feel scary. You can also try making it fun.

SANDY: I've worked with kids and families where we have had a glow in the dark party. So every family member, all the lights are off, and everybody has a glow stick. And that's one way to practice being in the dark.

It's not the complete dark, but it's a fun way to test out the theory that you can't handle it, right? Another way to make it fun is to think about, well, I'm scared of shadows. That's the thing that I'm scared of. Well, let's go shadow chasing. So how do-- how many shadows can we collect?

SASHA: Oh, shadow chasing sounds like fun.

MOLLY: And a glow in the dark party? I'd glow wild for that. Get it. Glow wild?

SASHA: Yeah.

MOLLY: Pretty good.

SASHA: I think you have some of Mr. Bonejangles spirit in you.

MOLLY: I think I do.

SASHA: Sandy says it might feel easier to avoid our fears altogether, like keeping all the lights on so we don't have to be in the dark.

MOLLY: But when we do that, we miss out on learning how brave we can be.

SANDY: When we avoid, we don't give ourselves the opportunity to learn that the anxiety itself gets better, or the fear goes away, or it goes down. And the more important thing, I think, is that we don't learn that we can handle it, even if it's scary.

MOLLY: Plus, when we avoid the dark, we also miss out on all the cool stuff the dark has to offer. We asked a few of our listeners about why they think the night is neat.

SPEAKER: The reason I like the dark is because I like the stars in the sky.

SPEAKER: The reason I like the dark is because I like hearing the owls hoot.

SPEAKER: I live in Alaska, so in the wintertime, it is always dark. So my favorite thing about the dark is because it reminds me of one of my favorite characters in the Addams Family.

SPEAKER: What I love about the dark is that my pupils get bigger because they want to see more light.

SPEAKER 4: What I like about the dark is that you can tell campfire stories around it, and it makes them scarier because it's dark.

SPEAKER: I love the dark because that's when me and my dad go bug hunting, and all the cool bugs come out, like scorpions.

SPEAKER: My favorite thing about the dark is that it feels spooky.

SPEAKER: I think the dark is cool because bats come out at night, and they use echolocation which is really, really cool.

SPEAKER: What I like about the dark are nighttime animals. My favorites are wolves, raccoons, and owls.

MOLLY: Thanks to Piper, Cohen, Murray, Shiloah, Tycho, Aimen, Fenna, Griffin, and Kyla for sharing their answers with us. OK, Sasha, what's one thing you like about the dark?

SASHA: So New York's obviously a city with bunches of lights. So when I'm walking and it's the evening, or I'm in my room and it's dark, I like looking outside because I can see all these different lights shimmering that-- and there's so many different colors.

And I like imagining stories for the people who turn them on. Like, why would the person like the color blue? Do they like the ocean? It's really fun to imagine the people.

MOLLY: That is so cool. You definitely have an awesome imagination. So after hearing from all those darkness devotees, I think it's time to hear something else, like the--

SPEAKER: Mystery sound.

MOLLY: Sasha, are you ready for the mystery sound?

SASHA: Yes. Awesome.

MOLLY: Here it is.

[MYSTERY SOUND PLAYING]

SASHA: I know what it is. I know what it is.

MOLLY: What? What is it?

SASHA: They're guinea pigs-- bunches and bunches of guinea pigs.

MOLLY: Oh my gosh, I don't know the answer, so I'm just going to assume you're right because you seem very, very certain.

SASHA: I'm absolutely sure that they're guinea pigs. I've heard that sound so many times, and I love making it.

MOLLY: Do you have guinea pigs?

SASHA: No, but when I was in kindergarten, our teacher had a guinea pig, and we got to take him home and take care of him. They sound like [MAKING GUINEA PIG SOUND].

MOLLY: That is a good impression. So we're going to hear it again at the end of the show, see if your answer is correct, which I'm guessing it is because you seem very, very certain. So we'll get confirmation of that after the credits.

SASHA: So, stay with us.

MOLLY: We are working on an episode about how we grow. And we want to know if you had the power to either grow super tall or shrink super small, which would you choose, and why? So, Sasha, what do you think? Would you choose grow super tall or shrink super small?

SASHA: Shrink super small all the way because I would love to run through the walls. And also, I really, really like LEGOs, so I'd love to play with my LEGOs as if they're life size.

MOLLY: Oh, yeah.

SASHA: And I wouldn't have to open the doors. I could just go under them. I don't have to open doors anymore.

MOLLY: I love that reasoning. Well, listeners, record yourself, telling us whether you would like to be very tall or super small, and send it to us at brainson.org/contact. And while you're there, you can send us mystery sounds, drawings, and questions, like this one.

SPEAKER: My question is, why do we get growing pains?

MOLLY: Again, that's brainson.org/contact.

SASHA: Keep listening.

You're listening to Brains On. I'm Sasha.

MOLLY: And I'm Molly. Today, we're shedding some light on the dark, right, Mr. Bonejangles?

MR. BONEJANGLES: Molly, I don't find that very humerus. Get it? I've been working my fingers to the bone coming up with these jokes, huh? Huh? I'm working on it. I'm working on it. You can be honest, but not that honest. Seriously, it will crush my brittle bones.

SASHA: Oh, yeah, humerus, like the bone. Good one.

MR. BONEJANGLES: Thank you, Sasha. Some of us appreciate humer. Anyway, I don't find that humorous because, to me, the doc is we're serious stuff. In fact, I've started a club for doc dwellers like myself. It's called the Knight Night.

MOLLY: Oh, like, night-night, sleep tight, Mr. Bonejangles. No night with a K like a Knight in rusty armor we're the Knights of the Night, right? Right? It worked better on paper.

SASHA: So what does the club do?

MR. BONEJANGLES: Good question. I hope you're taking notes, Molly. Our goal is to convince everyone that darkness is shudderly awesome, like this. Wait. First, I need some ambience. And now, let's turn off all the lights to really get in the mood. Hello, darkness, my old friend. OK, the first reason that darkness is awesome is that it keeps your circadian rhythm rocking.

MOLLY: Your circadian rhythm is like your own little internal clock.

MR. BONEJANGLES: Very good, Molly. Your circadian rhythm or internal clock knows when to sleep and when to wake, thanks to the cycles of light and dark. When daylight filters through your window to your eyes, this tells your brain that it's time to wake up and helps you feel more alert.

MOLLY: When the sun sets, the opposite happens.

MR. BONEJANGLES: Molly, you've really been boning up on your knowledge, haven't you? Just like the morning light tells your brain to wake up, darkness tells your brain that it's time to rest. This is why you might notice, you feel more tired after the sun sets, even if your bedtime isn't for another few hours.

MOLLY: But don't go thinking your circadian rhythm is one big snooze fest. It helps you with everything, from digesting food to fighting off disease. Keeping it on track is super important.

MR. BONEJANGLES: Right. This is definitely one rhythm you don't want to get off beat, not that I could ever get off beat. Just watch my viral dances on BoTube. They're flawless. But you, too. I'll be honest and tell you that I worry about you. You could take a lesson or two.

SASHA: OK, Mr. Bonejangles, I'm starting to see why the dark might be helpful, like how it sets a rhythm for our days and keeps us healthy. What else you got?

MR. BONEJANGLES: Reason number two-- being in the dark can help you notice things you might not otherwise because it heightens your other senses. You might hear your house make a sound, smell your stinky shoes from across the room, feel the texture one of a kind bone collection that you keep right next to your bed, as you run your fingers over those cute little vertebrae before you fall asleep.

SASHA: Wait, what?

MOLLY: Just go with it.

MR. BONEJANGLES: When it's dark, you notice all of these wonderful, wonderful things. And finally, reason number three why the night is neat. Lots of animal friends depend on the darkness. Baby sea turtles need the dark to find their way to the ocean. Some animals hunt in the dark, like owls and foxes. And others even have disco parties at night.

SASHA: Is that last part true?

MR. BONEJANGLES: Just ask my bat friends. They disco. Oh, I'm sorry. I stand corrected. They say it's more of a fusion between breakdancing and Lindy swing. And with that, we're out of here. Me-tata-tarsal. Mandible-boyage. Get it? Like bon voyage.

SASHA: Those bone puns were a lot but, Mr. Bonejangles is right. The dark is actually really cool.

MOLLY: I know. But unfortunately, experiencing true darkness at night is getting harder and harder. Sasha, when you look outside at night, can you see the stars?

SASHA: Not when I'm in New York. But last summer, we went to this place in the middle of nowhere in New Mexico. And every night, I got to come out. And I would look up, and I'd see so many stars. And right above us, literally, right above us. I would just stare straight up, and I could see the Milky Way.

MOLLY: A few hundred years ago, almost every human could see the beauty of the universe when they stepped outside at night. But today, only 20% of people in North America can see the Milky Way.

SASHA: The reason is light pollution. Things like streetlights and bright car headlights light up our world and keep us safe, but these things also block out the light from the stars.

MOLLY: But there are some places where you can still see lots of stars. And producer Nico Gonzalez Wisler got to go to one. Hi, Nico.

NICO: Hey, Molly. Hey, Sasha. I just got back Cherry Springs State Park in Northern Pennsylvania. It's classified as an International Dark Sky Place.

MOLLY: Oh, I've heard of these. That's a spot where there's not much light pollution because it's far from bright cities or towns.

NICO: Exactly. And every year, the park hosts a huge stargazer studded weekend extravaganza, called the Black Forest Star Party.

SASHA: Party like with music and games and stuff?

NICO: Well, this is more like a party for people who really like the dark. The park's astronomy field doesn't allow any bright white flashlights or headlamps. You can only use dim red lighting. So when the sun sets at Cherry Springs, it's really dark. I flagged down a park ranger named Scott Morgan because I figured he probably wasn't afraid.

SCOTT: Do I get afraid of the dark? Absolutely not. I love the dark. I'm an astrophotographer myself. I'm a visual observer myself. I do a lot of things in the dark. I do a lot of hiking, overnight hiking, camping, that type of stuff.

NICO: To be honest, I was a little bit nervous about how dark it would be, so I set out to find some people who had been to the star party before.

CHARLIE: My name is Charlie. I am 10.

LOUIE: I'm Louie, and I'm 12 years old.

NICO: I met Charlie and Louie as they were helping their dad set up their telescope. And this was actually their fourth time coming to the star party. They live in a city in Central Pennsylvania, and it can be hard to see the stars there. But here, they knew would be dark enough to see tons of cool stuff in the sky.

CHARLIE: It's definitely more clear, so I can see the stars easier. And I just like it more.

LOUIE: Like, the first time, I was super scared because it was so dark. I was like, this is the start to a horror movie.

NICO: Charlie was a little scared, too, that first time. But once they finally got a clear night, that fear went away.

CHARLIE: I was distracted by the stars. There was nothing really else on my mind.

NICO: Once the sun set, the star party really got going. Because it was so dark, you could see all kinds of cool stuff in the sky just by looking up, like constellations, planets, and satellites. But some people also brought powerful telescopes to see things much farther away. Here's how some visitors described it.

SPEAKER: It looked like someone spilled flour all over the sky.

SPEAKER: I saw the Lagoon Nebula, the Ring Nebula. Those were pretty cool.

SPEAKER: I saw the Big Dipper last night.

SPEAKER: I saw Jupiter. I saw Mars.

SPEAKER: And I saw the Little Dipper last night.

SPEAKER: I saw a few constellations. It looked like somebody was in on the moon, and they took diamonds out of the box. And instead of throwing them, they just flew out.

SASHA: That sounds awesome. What was the coolest thing you saw, Nico?

NICO: Well, like you, my constellation knowledge is pretty limited, but some people pointed them out to me. So I saw Orion's Belt and Sagittarius. I did pick out the Big Dipper on my own. I could also see the whole Milky Way stretching over the observation field. And then through other people's telescopes, I was able to look at distant galaxies, like M13.

MOLLY: Wow, that sounds amazing.

SASHA: Thanks, Nico.

NICO: My pleasure. Bye, Molly. Bye, Sasha.

MOLLY: Bye, Nico.

Being afraid of the dark is pretty normal. Lots of kids are scared of it at one point or another.

SASHA: That's probably because it was hard for early humans to see danger in the dark. Being wary of what was scary got passed down through the generations to us.

MOLLY: But the dark is actually really helpful. It helps keep our circadian rhythm on track, which is important for getting good sleep and staying healthy.

SASHA: Not to mention the dark sky lets us see how beautiful the universe is around us.

MOLLY: That's it for this episode of Brains On.

SASHA: This episode was written by Molly Quinlan Hartwick and Nico Gonzalez Wisler, with production help by Molly Bloom, Rosie DuPont, Anna Goldfield, Aron Waldeslassie, Anna Wegel, Ruby Guthrie, and Marc Sanchez.

MOLLY: Our editors are Sanden Totten and Shahla Farzan. This episode was sound design by Rachel Breeze. Beth Perlman is our executive producer. The executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavati, Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffith. Special thanks to Andy Doucette, Dr. Simon Rego, Zhenya Grant, Mickey Bloom.

SASHA: Brains On is a non-profit public radio program.

MOLLY: There are lots of ways to support the show. Head to brainson.org.

SASHA: While you're there, you can subscribe to our Smarty Pass. It gives you special access to awesome bonus content and ad-free episodes.

MOLLY: And you can send us drawings, questions, and mystery sounds. All right, Sasha, are you ready to hear that mystery sound again?

SASHA: Yes. Yes, let's do it.

MOLLY: Let's do it. Here it is.

[MYSTERY SOUND PLAYING]

SASHA: Guinea pigs. Guinea pigs. Definitely guinea pigs.

MOLLY: 100% Guinea pigs?

SASHA: Yes.

MOLLY: I am with you because you've convinced me. You sounded so certain. I have no idea what it is. Should we hear the answer?

SASHA: Yes.

MOLLY: All right, here it is.

SPEAKER: The sound that you just heard are the guinea pigs from my farm in Ecuador.

MOLLY: Oh my god.

SASHA: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

MOLLY: Sasha, we've never had a mystery sound guest so quickly and with such certainty. So amazing. Can you do your guinea pig impression one more time before we go?

SASHA: [MAKING GUINEA PIG SOUND]

MOLLY: I'm going to try, too. [MAKING GUINEA PIG SOUND]

Now, it's time for the Brains Honor Roll. These are the kids who keep the show going with their questions, mystery sounds, joins, and high fives.

[LISTING HONOR ROLL]

We'll be back next week with more answers to your questions.

SASHA: Thanks for listening.