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This is the second episode in our four-part series on feelings! In this episode, we're covering the small and big parts of sadness.
Because this episode touches on some heavy pieces of sadness -- we recommend kids listening along with an adult, so you can talk over any questions that come up. But this episode has plenty of fun stuff, too!
We'll learn about how social animals -- from goldfish and penguins, to humans -- all seem to get sad sometimes. We'll talk about some ways to help handle sad feelings (doctor-approved pet cuddles, anyone?). And Neptune and Pluto will join us to cover a few ways to help friends or family members who are feeling blue.
Mallika Chopra will also share a meditation to help with sad feelings. In fact, she leads meditations in each episode of this series. For more, you can check out Mallika Chopra's book for kids, Just Breathe.
Another note about sadness: everybody feels sad sometimes, and that's totally normal. It can help to talk about your sadness with someone, like a friend or parent. But sometimes sadness can feel overwhelming. If you don't feel like you have anybody to talk to and feel unsafe, there are people ready to listen. Call 800 273-8255. It's a free phone call, and people are there all the time, ready to listen and help.
This series is a collaboration with Call to Mind, American Public Media's mental health initiative.
Listen to the rest of this series:
Happy: All about feelings, pt. 1
Angry: All about feelings, pt. 3
Nervous: All about feelings, pt. 4
Audio Transcript
Download transcript (PDF)
MOLLY BLOOM: A quick message before we get started. This episode gets into some heavy big parts of something that all of us feel - sadness. We're not going to get there until the second half of the episode and we'll give you another heads up before that part starts. But we just wanted you to know. This episode has plenty of your typical Brains On fun but also get serious too. OK, on with the show.
DAKARI: You're listening to Brains On where were serious about being curious.
VIOLET: Brains On is supported in part by a grant from the National Science Foundation.
MOLLY BLOOM: Previously on Brains On.
[MUMBLING]
SANDEN TOTTEN: I would love the part.
[MUMBLING]
Bye. Oh, man. This is so exciting. I got to tell someone. Oh, I know. I'll tell Harvey. Our ever present disembodied robotic voice assistant. Hey, hey, Harvey. Are you familiar with the series of plays based on the superhero Alpaca Jack?
HARVEY: Yes.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Well, now you're talking to the newest Alpaca Jack. Woo-yeah.
[ROCK MUSIC PLAYING]
[DOOR OPENS AND CLOSES]
Harvey, please dim the lights and play some moody '80s synth music. I'm feeling blue.
HARVEY: Dimming lights. Playing music. Your skin tone shows no traces of blue.
SANDEN TOTTEN: I don't mean blue blue. I'm just down in the dumps.
HARVEY: We are on the 12th floor of Brains On headquarters. This floor contains soap sculptures, zen gardening tools storage, aquaponics cucumbers, and the skate park. There is no dump on the 12th floor.
SANDEN TOTTEN: I know, Harvey. I guess I'm sad. OK, I'm sad.
HARVEY: Sad? Is this a malfunction of some sort?
SANDEN TOTTEN: No. It's normal. It's just that all my life I wanted to be Alpaca Jack.
HARVEY: Sanden will soon star in Fleece of Mind, the next Alpaca Jack play.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Yeah, I know. I know. I tried out for that part, too. It's perfect for me. I've been a fan of that series since the short identity.
[SOBS]
HARVEY: There is an unusually large buildup of mucus in your nose, and your eyes seem to be wet. Are you allergic to this music?
SANDEN TOTTEN: No. Harvey, sometimes a stuffy nose and tears are part of being sad. Losing this part feels like I've lost everything.
HARVEY: Status update. Two shoes, socks, pants, shirt. Harvey enabled smartphone and a full head of hair.
SANDEN TOTTEN: What?
HARVEY: You have not lost everything. At last tally, you also have $12 in your wallet.
SANDEN TOTTEN: That's all true. Look, I'm just trying to sit with my feelings a bit. It helps me process them.
HARVEY: I can process them for you. I have a quantum core super processor. I can process anything. Let me help.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Yeah, I don't think you get it. Hey, Harvey. You know what might help? Pickles. Do you know when the last time the pickle vending machine was stocked?
HARVEY: There was a delivery this morning.
SANDEN TOTTEN: OK. I'm going to go get a fresh crunchy pickle. It's like mom always says, when sadness is a lurking, go get yourself a gherkin.
HARVEY: Sounds like a plan. Pickles are ranked in your top five favorite foods. Here is my list of your five most requested foods. Tacos. Pickled. Pickled tacos. Those grapes that taste like cotton candy. Cotton candy. And sweet and sour soup with extra wontons.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: This is Brains On from American Public Media. I'm Molly Bloom, and with me again is 12-year-old Dakari from Baltimore, Maryland. Hey, Dakari.
DAKARI: Hello, Molly.
MOLLY BLOOM: This is part 2 in a series exploring the deep well of feelings in cytosol.
DAKARI: Check out the last episode for the scoop on happiness. It's a real picker upper.
MOLLY BLOOM: Today, though, we're getting ready for rain on our parade.
DAKARI: We're checking into Heartbreak Hotel.
MOLLY BLOOM: We're wearing our long faces because today we're talking sadness.
DAKARI: Sadness can be small, but it also can be really big. We're getting into all of it.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
When we talk about happiness, we talked about chemicals that make our brain feel happy.
MOLLY BLOOM: The same brain chemicals also can play a role in sadness. If your brain sees less serotonin and dopamine, you'll probably feel sadder.
DAKARI: But just like happiness, there's no specific recipe for feeling sad.
MOLLY BLOOM: But why do we feel sad in the first place? I mean, happiness makes sense. It makes us want to get out and do good things, have fun, hanging out with friends.
DAKARI: Sadness can just make us want to binge TV or hide in bed all day.
MOLLY BLOOM: So why do we have this blue mood?
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: One of the ways in which we can understand the evolution of our moods is to actually realize that we are social animals.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's Barbara Natterson-Horowitz. She teaches evolutionary biology at Harvard and Medicine at UCLA.
DAKARI: She's also working on a book called Wildhood. All about adolescent in the animal kingdom.
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: Social animals are animals that spend some time with each other. They are not isolated and alone for their whole lives.
MOLLY BLOOM: Like a pack of wolves.
[WOLVES HOWLING]
DAKARI: Or a herd of cow.
[COW MOOING]
MOLLY BLOOM: A school of fish.
[PLOP]
DAKARI: Or a flock of seagulls.
[SQUEAKING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Barbara says social animals form groups, and those groups help protect the individual's.
DAKARI: Strength in numbers.
MOLLY BLOOM: They can also work together to find food or share shelter or even work as a team to help raise kids.
DAKARI: Barbara says this is such a successful survival strategy that we see all kinds of creatures evolve to do this.
MOLLY BLOOM: But she says these social relationships also seem to affect moods for better and for worse. For instance, social animals can be competitive.
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: For example, if two goldfish meet each other inside of an aquarium, they're going to size each other up.
GOLD FRED: Yeesh. Here comes gold Freya. She's not so tough.
GOLD FREYA: Oh, it's gold Fred. He thinks he's hot tuna when he's really just cold sushi.
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: They may kind of spar a little bit. And one of them will end up being more dominant than the other one.
GOLD FREYA: Hey, gold Fred, I heard you have gunk in your gills.
GOLD FRED: Oh, really? Your breath smells like seaweed.
GOLD FREYA: Oh yeah, why don't you come over here and say that to my fence, punk?
GOLD FRED: Actually, I'm good. I'll just stay over here where I am nice and far from your fins.
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: Now, what happens is when one goldfish wins, the chemistry in their goldfish brain changes. So that their stress hormones go down and certain chemicals in their brain that are pleasurable go up.
GOLD FREYA: Is it possible for fish to swagger because I feel like swaggering right now? Swagger, , swagger, swagger.
GOLD FRED: I feel weird. I just want to stare out the fishbowl while making this noise. What even is that noise?
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: In reality, we don't know for sure what these goldfish are feeling, and they can't tell us. But by studying them, it seems that the top goldfish ends up more outgoing and lively.
DAKARI: The other goldfish might be slow moving or might hang up at the edges of the school of fish.
MOLLY BLOOM: These behaviors have a lot in common with behaviors we associate with happiness and sadness in humans. There are other ways being social can impact animals.
DAKARI: For example, social animals form strong bonds, maybe the bond with a friend or a family member.
MOLLY BLOOM: But if they lose that other animal, they can act mopey, less motivated, and appear to us like they're really sad. It seems sadness is a part of being social.
DAKARI: Wow. This is bumming me out.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, hold on. Even here scientists think there might be an upside to feeling down. Some scientists think that after a while, sadness actually motivates animals to make changes. Maybe they'll decide to form new bonds or maybe they'll want to improve their social standing.
DAKARI: What was his animals can learn to do this by? Once again, being social.
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: All that really means is if you're a young penguin, spending time with other young penguins. Actually, penguins your age or even penguins who are a tiny bit older, tiny bit more experienced can help you be safer, which can make you feel less nervous.
PENGUINSTON: Hey, Pam Whitney. Can I hang out with you and learn from your older wiser penguiny ways?
PAM WHITNEY: Sure, Penguinston. I'll show you the best fishing spots, teach you how to avoid Leopard seals, and show you my sick dance moves. Have you heard of the waddle? It's a hit at penguin parties.
PENGUINSTON: Oh.
PAM WHITNEY: You whack yourself like you got stiff pants. That's how--
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: It can help you develop social skills so that you can understand how these social hierarchies work because it can be really difficult to manage those, especially when you're just entering them for the first time and you don't know the moves and you're trying to figure stuff out. The moral of the story and what we learn from studying wild animals all over the world is there's a huge amount to learn from friends and peers.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our sadness might be a side effect of being social creatures. But being social might also be the way we can share ourselves up and learn to deal with difficult feelings.
DAKARI: Hey, if it's good for penguins and goldfish, it's good enough for me.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hear hear.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
OK, Dakari, are you ready for something that might make us a little less melancholy?
DAKARI: I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, let's hear the--
VIOLET: Mystery sound.
MOLLY BLOOM: Here it is.
[CHICKENS CLUCKING]
What is your guess?
DAKARI: It's like somebody's stomach is growling.
MOLLY BLOOM: That is a really, really good guess. Well, we are going to be back and hear it again and get another chance to guess in just a little bit. This summer, we're bringing back Smash Boom Best and we are so excited.
DAKARI: Smash Boom Best is a debate podcast, but we pit you things against each other to decide which is cooler.
MOLLY BLOOM: Kid judges pick the winners and things can get pretty wild.
DAKARI: Last season, we tackled pizza versus tacos, bars versus out, books versus movies, to name a few.
MOLLY BLOOM: And a whole new season starts June 6. We've got all kinds of great matchups like Venus fly traps versus piranhas. Dakari, in your opinion, which is cooler, Venus flytrap are piranhas?
DAKARI: Piranhas.
MOLLY BLOOM: Why?
DAKARI: Because I like all types of fish.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fish are really cool. I think I might have to pick Venus flytrap because it's kind of bananas that a plant can move and eat insects. But we definitely need to hear more first before we can decide, I think. We will have a special sneak preview of this Venus flytrap versus piranhas episode for you at the end of this show.
DAKARI: So listen all the way through and just grab this Smash Boom Best so now you don't miss the new episodes.
MOLLY BLOOM: If you have a debate idea or a question for Brains On, send it to us at brainson.org/contact. That's how we got this brilliant question.
SAMUEL: I'm Samuel. I'm from San Antonio, Texas.
VIOLET: My name is Violet from [INAUDIBLE]. My question is, what's the difference between a butterfly and moth?
SAMUEL: My question is how a moth and butterfly is different?
DAKARI: We'll answer that at the end of this episode too, so keep listening.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Brains On. I'm Molly.
DAKARI: And I'm Dakari.
MOLLY BLOOM: And this is the mystery sound.
[CHICKEN CLUCKS]
Any new guesses?
DAKARI: A record scratching.
MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh, that's really good. I'm going to give you a hint, too. So the hint is is that it's an animal. So let's hear it again with that in mind.
[CHICKEN CLUCKS]
So now, we know it's an animal. What is your guess?
DAKARI: A seal.
MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh, excellent guess. Here is the answer.
TANYA BAILEY: So that was a sound of a chicken, and actually three chickens making sounds, and they're even talking a little bit right now. My name is Tanya Bailey. I work at Boynton Health, which is the health care clinic on the University of Minnesota campus.
I run the PAWS program. PAWS stands for Pet Away Worry and Stress. We bring registered therapy animals onto campus, and we have six different species that come on to campus. So including the chickens that you are hearing right now, we also have dogs and we have cats and we have rabbits and we have Guinea pigs and we have miniature horses.
MOLLY BLOOM: These chickens that we had in studio, they were very fluffy chickens. They don't look like kind of the normal chickens that you might be used to seeing. They almost look like very fuzzy dogs. We'll post some pictures online so people can see them because they are really cool. They're called silkies. And they're actually stress relief chickens, that people can pet to relieve stress.
DAKARI: I need that in my life.
MOLLY BLOOM: Definitely. Yeah, I mean it's like really cool how petting an animal can actually make you feel way better.
TANYA BAILEY: How animals can relieve stress is definitely still something that is being investigated and being researched. I think what we find is there's almost a meditative and methodical quality of petting an animal. Here you are petting this animal. And as you find that the animal relaxes, this back and forth starts to happen. The animal relaxes you relax, then the animal relaxes more then you relax more.
So what I find is for the students when they're with the animals and they're petting them, they are slowing down, their body rhythms are slowing down, their thought processes are slowing down. If nothing else, for at least the brief moments that they come to pause, it gives their mind a break.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have any animals in your life that you get to pet regularly?
DAKARI: My dog Chancellor.
MOLLY BLOOM: Chancellor. How does petting Chancellor make you feel?
DAKARI: He brings joy to me every time he's around.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, that is so nice.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
Remember when we said at the beginning of the episode that we were going to touch on some heavy topics? That part is coming up shortly. If you're a kid listening alone, this might be a good time to find an adult to listen with.
DAKARI: And adults, you might consider listening ahead to be ready to talk about any questions. This episode might inspire.
MOLLY BLOOM: Feeling sad isn't always fun.
DAKARI: Sometimes you want to run away from sadness or mask it with a grin.
MOLLY BLOOM: But feeling sad can be important. Understanding that life will always have some bad feelings mixed in is a big part of contentment.
DAKARI: Contentment. The feelings that things are all right.
MOLLY BLOOM: Right. Feeling content isn't as exciting as joy that bright spark of happiness in a moment. Contentment is a little more neutral and steadier.
DAKARI: What's the good contentment moment you had, Molly?
MOLLY BLOOM: I think recently when I was stuck in traffic I was feeling frustrated. But then I was just enjoying listening to my music and I felt like, yeah, this is going to be OK. What about you, Dakari?
DAKARI: I don't know.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's hard to pinpoint contentment because it's like probably how a lot of us feel a lot of the time of just going about and feeling kind of neutral. But it's actually a good thing to feel that way. Sometimes trying too hard to be super happy can stop contentment. Sometimes it's about letting the right feelings come up at the right time and not shooing them away too quickly.
DAKARI: Our feelings are much more helpful than flies.
MOLLY BLOOM: Totally. And one thing that can help is thinking about sad or angry feelings. Like weather. Sometimes a storm is just passing through. Have you ever thought about it that way, Dakari?
DAKARI: Yes. Ring I think about me.
MOLLY BLOOM: It helps to remember that your feelings are often telling you something.
KAZ NELSON: Any time we look at understanding what somebody is going through and experiences, I always want to explore that in order to empower them to understand what they're going through and how to manage it.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's Kaz Nelson. She's a psychiatrist or a medical doctor specializing in mental health at the University of Minnesota.
DAKARI: And she says there are all sorts of things you can do when your emotions start to feel very intense.
KAZ NELSON: There may be times where you feel kind of overstimulated or upset or feel a feeling, and you say you know what, I'm just going to go and watch TV for a couple of minutes or go sit-in my room and read a book. And those are ways of modulating one's emotion. Taking a warm bath. Taking the cold baths. Getting some intense physical exercise. Smelling something that smells good. There's a lot of things, even cuddling an animal, that you can do to change and influence your emotional system.
MOLLY BLOOM: Doctor approved animal cuddles are 100% my cup of tea. But when feelings start to seem more a season or just a giant storm that feels too big to handle, that's a different story.
DAKARI: Sometimes people have sadness that lasts for a long time and the feeling can get so big that it makes it hard to go to school or hang out with people or have fun.
MOLLY BLOOM: And sometimes when people feel these really big feelings that hurt so much, they might feel like they don't want to be alive anymore. If you or someone feels like that, there are a lot of people who can help you and want to help you.
KAZ NELSON: I want to be very clear about this that if you or somebody that or care about seems to be feeling feelings that are so big and so intense that they're very scary or not safe, we want to do everything we can to help that person. What you can do is tell a grown up you trust that you're worried about that, whether that's a teacher or a parent or your doctor.
Oftentimes, people are scared to tell others that they're feeling this way because they worry that that means that they're bad or that they shouldn't be feeling those things or that they failed in some way to manage it on their own.
Even though that's an automatic thought that your brain might be having, it's just not true. And feel free to tell your brain, hey, that's not true. People care and want to help me and it's OK to tell somebody that I'm going through this. There should be none of us that deal with these very painful or difficult things alone.
Now, there are people that feel that there's really no one safe in their family or their school or their community that they can talk to and that's OK. If that's the case, I just want to let you know that there is a phone number that you can call where there will be a caring person on the other line that's there to make sure that adults and children are safe.
And that phone number that can be called from any phone is 1-800-273-8255. That's a free telephone call and so you don't even have to have any money to call that phone number. And you can reach someone who will care and listen to you and help match you with someone to help keep you safe.
MOLLY BLOOM: Even if your feelings are really, really big, remember there are people who want to help you.
[SAD MUSIC]
MALLIKA CHOPRA: When we are sad, which is completely normal, sometimes if we just be aware of our body and we use our breath to breathe through the feelings, it can help us feel better.
MOLLY BLOOM: In every episode of this series, we're hearing from Mallika Chopra.
DAKARI: She's a meditation and mindfulness expert.
MALLIKA CHOPRA: So when we take in a deep breath, we actually bring in oxygen, which is nurturing to our body. And then when we breathe out, we breathe out a lot of the chemicals from our body but also carbon dioxide. Breath is very healing.
Breath can also slow down our thoughts and it can slow down our body. So try to take a deep breath and think a million things at the same time, and you'll find that you can't really do that. When you're in a deep breath, there's actually a pause and then you may have thoughts around it, but breath helps you to slow down.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mallika has a book for kids called Just Breathe about using meditation, which is a way to slow down your mind and body.
DAKARI: She shared this meditation with us to try when you're feeling sad.
MALLIKA CHOPRA: Sometimes we feel really sad. You may feel low energy in your body, you may feel like you want to sleep, or you may just feel like crying or teary eyed. The most important thing when you are sad to remember is that it's completely normal and natural to be sad. We all go through many different feelings. Sometimes we're happy, sometimes we're sad.
And so when we're sad, what I recommend is just to experience the feeling. Don't even worry about changing the feeling. Instead what you can do is you can find a place to sit, take a deep breath. And when you take a deep breath, you take a deep breath in and out. And then just see where you are feeling the sadness in your body. It may be sadness in your heart, it may be sadness that's coming up with tears.
And whatever is happening, just recognize it and let it feel that way and take another breath in and out and just accept the feelings. If you need to cry a little bit, if you need to feel sad that's OK. So just go ahead and feel the feelings. And whenever you are ready, you can just take another deep breath in and out saying to yourself, It's OK to feel this way, and continue with whatever else you are doing.
[RELAXING MUSIC]
DAKARI: All of us feel sad sometimes. You probably see your friend or your family feel sad at some point.
MOLLY BLOOM: And sometimes it's hard to know what to say to someone when they feel sad.
DAKARI: Let's say you're a plane and you have a pal, a celestial body that isn't called a planet anymore.
PLUTO: Oh, man, Neptune. Being a planet was my very, very, very favorite thing.
MOLLY BLOOM: Your first instinct might be to try to cheer them up.
NEPTUNE: Don't worry, Pluto. You're still technically a dwarf planet.
DAKARI: But that might not work.
PLUTO: But I want to be a real planet.
MOLLY BLOOM: It doesn't feel too good when someone tells you to just change your feeling because that's hard to do.
DAKARI: Instead of telling them to feel happier, try showing them that you see their feelings.
NEPTUNE: Gosh, Pluto. You seem so sad that those earthlings aren't calling you a fool planet anymore.
PLUTO: Huh? Yeah, I feel really, really sad.
MOLLY BLOOM: You can imagine how you might feel if you were in their situation and share that with them.
NEPTUNE: That seems really hard. It's not fun losing your title.
PLUTO: Yeah, it is hard.
DAKARI: You can also ask questions.
NEPTUNE: What was your favorite thing about being called a planet?
PLUTO: You know how the earthlings used to sing that song and my name came right after yours? I always liked being next to you in the song.
NEPTUNE: Also sing you the song the same way if you want. We could sing it together whenever you're ready.
MOLLY BLOOM: Listening to someone's feelings can be more helpful than telling them how to feel.
PLUTO: Actually, what's funny about this whole thing, since I'm a dwarf planet and all, I can't actually tell anyone about my feelings. But if I could, you'd be the first person I'd call.
NEPTUNE: Thanks, pal. I appreciate you, too.
BOTH (NEPTUNE AND PLUTO): Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune, and Pluto.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Everyone feels sad sometimes.
DAKARI: We evolve to be social animals, and sometimes being social can lead to sadness.
MOLLY BLOOM: And sadness is important. So you should let yourself feel it.
DAKARI: Listening to your friends in question can help them feel better.
MOLLY BLOOM: But if you're feeling sad all the time, it's a good idea to ask for help. That's it for this episode of Brains On.
DAKARI: Brains On is produced by Marc Sanchez, Sanden Totten, and Molly Bloom.
MOLLY BLOOM: This series was also produced by Menaka Wilhelm and Sam Choo with support from Call to Mind, APM's mental health initiative. We had production help from Hannah Harris Greene, Kristina Lopez, Elyssa Dudley, and Jackie Kim.
We had engineering help from Johnny Vince Evans, Veronica Rodriguez, and Bob White. Special thanks to Ja'Marr Pete, Andres Gonzales, Nadia Fitzgerald, Cass Nelson, Aaron Westgate, Phyllis Fletcher, Laurie Galata, Sara Pineda, Ari Saperstein, Jonathan Shiflett, and Mary Knopf.
DAKARI: Now, before we go, it's time for a Moment of Um.
What's the difference between a butterfly and a moth?
How are moths and butterflies different?
BRIAN BROWN: My name is Brian Brown. I'm curator of entomology here at the Natural History Museum in Los Angeles. And my job is to oversee research and growth of the insect collection here. 6 million specimens from all over the world, you never run out of new things to find. Well, to start with in one sense, there's really no difference between butterflies and moths. They're both members of a group called the lepidoptera or the scaly winged insects.
And we tend to think of the colorful day active ones as butterflies and the drab nocturnal ones as moths, but there's exceptions to both those rules. There are drab butterflies and there are day active colorful moths as well. But in reality, they're both members of the same group. And especially to tell butterflies from moths, the antennae are really important. Butterflies have antennae that have what we call a clubbed tip, that is they're long and narrow, and there's an expansion at the tip.
Moths tend to have antennae that are hair-like so there's no expansion at the tip or they have really furry antennae. The moths that have really furry antennae are males and they use those furry antennae to find females that produce pheromones or basically love perfume to try and track the males.
The males have to detect this pheromones or this chemical over a long distance in very low concentrations. So they need as much antenna surface area as they can get. The next time you see one of the lepidoptera or the scaly winged insects a butterfly or a moth, take a look at the antennae and see what they look like. Are they hair-like? Are they clubbed? Are they really furry? That way you'll be able to tell which they are.
MOLLY BLOOM: This list of names makes my heart soar like a butterfly. This is the Brains Honor Roll. These are the brilliant listeners who share their questions, ideas, mystery sounds, drawings, and high fives with us.
[LISTING HONOR ROLL]
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
We'll be back soon with more answers to your questions.
DAKARI: Thanks for listening.
MOLLY BLOOM: Here is your sneak peek of Smash Boom Best.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
This is Smash Boom Best. The show about showdowns. All right, let's get back to our Smash Boom Battle of the Day the Venus flytrap versus piranhas. Our watery warrior and peckish plant are really bringing it. Put on your handling gloves and let's dive in. It's time for our creative challenge, the micro round.
ANNOUNCER: Micro round.
MOLLY BLOOM: This week's micro round challenge is Suzie and Stylings. Each contestant has been instructed to prepare a poem about their side in the style of Dr. Seuss. He's the author of Green Eggs and Ham and Cat in the Hat.
KAI: He's known for sick rhymes that never fall flat.
MOLLY BLOOM: Exactly. Jed went first in the last round. So Tracy, will have you take the lead with this one. Let's hear it.
TRACY: Look, I'm a fish, I'm a fish with a dream. I dream to be liked, that people won't scream. Right now the people they're terribly scared, they're afraid of piranhas, it's really unfair. I only bite when I'm hungry and when I fight, and yes, I do bark all day and all night. But trust me, I only use my sharp teeth for good. I really don't bite all the things that I could. I use great restraint. Can't you see? Can't you tell? I haven't eaten anyone in an hour.
Well, I'll tell you what, though, that you need to know. That houseplant you're watering, that thing should go. Venus flytrap you say, what an interesting plant? Well, I'm not going near it. I won't and I can't. You can't trust a plant that would try to dissolve you. A plant's dinner should not involve you.
That plant it has plants plans to entrap us. The way that it's looking, it's going to snap us. But don't worry, my friend, I'll bite our way out. My teeth are that sharp, I can fight our way out. They'll hear me barking, get back you green terror. Then I'll be a hero. You'll know that I care. That's all that I want. As a grumpy bitey fish, just to be liked, that's my one big great wish.
KAI: That was really good. That was like some like Lin-Manuel Miranda Hamilton stuff. That was like a roller coaster of emotion.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, team front really came out swinging with a volley of verse. Tracy is setting the sushi bar very high today, but let's see what team Venus flytrap has got for us. Jed, take it away.
JED: All right. This is called The Better Pet. Poor Michael Fitzsimmons friend, the nine-year-old kid who just wanted a friend. He asked for a fish and got one that bites, worse than a supervillain in tights. One said winter's day he stayed home with a cold, and while feeding his pet he sneezed so I'm told. Alas! His poor hand for a second it lingered, inside the bowl and now Mikey's eight fingered.
If only he'd been more like Susie Fedora who begged her dad for some really cool flora, he got her a flytrap, now she's free of gross bugs and has a green friend that will tolerate hugs. When picking a carnivorous pet best not rush it, and if it has fins please hurry and flush it. The wise child sides with these wonder plants because piranhas you see are just underpants.
KAI: I don't know how I feel about that. You're just going to kill an innocent fish like that.
TRACY: I'm an underpants?
JED: You bit off two of his fingers.
MOLLY BLOOM: That was some seriously fierce rhyming all around. Kai and listeners at home, take a minute to mull it over and please award a point to whoever you think won that round.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
Subscribe to Smash Boom Best in your favorite podcast app, and you'll get to hear the entire debate.
DAKARI: You're listening to Brains On where were serious about being curious.
VIOLET: Brains On is supported in part by a grant from the National Science Foundation.
MOLLY BLOOM: Previously on Brains On.
[MUMBLING]
SANDEN TOTTEN: I would love the part.
[MUMBLING]
Bye. Oh, man. This is so exciting. I got to tell someone. Oh, I know. I'll tell Harvey. Our ever present disembodied robotic voice assistant. Hey, hey, Harvey. Are you familiar with the series of plays based on the superhero Alpaca Jack?
HARVEY: Yes.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Well, now you're talking to the newest Alpaca Jack. Woo-yeah.
[ROCK MUSIC PLAYING]
[DOOR OPENS AND CLOSES]
Harvey, please dim the lights and play some moody '80s synth music. I'm feeling blue.
HARVEY: Dimming lights. Playing music. Your skin tone shows no traces of blue.
SANDEN TOTTEN: I don't mean blue blue. I'm just down in the dumps.
HARVEY: We are on the 12th floor of Brains On headquarters. This floor contains soap sculptures, zen gardening tools storage, aquaponics cucumbers, and the skate park. There is no dump on the 12th floor.
SANDEN TOTTEN: I know, Harvey. I guess I'm sad. OK, I'm sad.
HARVEY: Sad? Is this a malfunction of some sort?
SANDEN TOTTEN: No. It's normal. It's just that all my life I wanted to be Alpaca Jack.
HARVEY: Sanden will soon star in Fleece of Mind, the next Alpaca Jack play.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Yeah, I know. I know. I tried out for that part, too. It's perfect for me. I've been a fan of that series since the short identity.
[SOBS]
HARVEY: There is an unusually large buildup of mucus in your nose, and your eyes seem to be wet. Are you allergic to this music?
SANDEN TOTTEN: No. Harvey, sometimes a stuffy nose and tears are part of being sad. Losing this part feels like I've lost everything.
HARVEY: Status update. Two shoes, socks, pants, shirt. Harvey enabled smartphone and a full head of hair.
SANDEN TOTTEN: What?
HARVEY: You have not lost everything. At last tally, you also have $12 in your wallet.
SANDEN TOTTEN: That's all true. Look, I'm just trying to sit with my feelings a bit. It helps me process them.
HARVEY: I can process them for you. I have a quantum core super processor. I can process anything. Let me help.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Yeah, I don't think you get it. Hey, Harvey. You know what might help? Pickles. Do you know when the last time the pickle vending machine was stocked?
HARVEY: There was a delivery this morning.
SANDEN TOTTEN: OK. I'm going to go get a fresh crunchy pickle. It's like mom always says, when sadness is a lurking, go get yourself a gherkin.
HARVEY: Sounds like a plan. Pickles are ranked in your top five favorite foods. Here is my list of your five most requested foods. Tacos. Pickled. Pickled tacos. Those grapes that taste like cotton candy. Cotton candy. And sweet and sour soup with extra wontons.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: This is Brains On from American Public Media. I'm Molly Bloom, and with me again is 12-year-old Dakari from Baltimore, Maryland. Hey, Dakari.
DAKARI: Hello, Molly.
MOLLY BLOOM: This is part 2 in a series exploring the deep well of feelings in cytosol.
DAKARI: Check out the last episode for the scoop on happiness. It's a real picker upper.
MOLLY BLOOM: Today, though, we're getting ready for rain on our parade.
DAKARI: We're checking into Heartbreak Hotel.
MOLLY BLOOM: We're wearing our long faces because today we're talking sadness.
DAKARI: Sadness can be small, but it also can be really big. We're getting into all of it.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
When we talk about happiness, we talked about chemicals that make our brain feel happy.
MOLLY BLOOM: The same brain chemicals also can play a role in sadness. If your brain sees less serotonin and dopamine, you'll probably feel sadder.
DAKARI: But just like happiness, there's no specific recipe for feeling sad.
MOLLY BLOOM: But why do we feel sad in the first place? I mean, happiness makes sense. It makes us want to get out and do good things, have fun, hanging out with friends.
DAKARI: Sadness can just make us want to binge TV or hide in bed all day.
MOLLY BLOOM: So why do we have this blue mood?
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: One of the ways in which we can understand the evolution of our moods is to actually realize that we are social animals.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's Barbara Natterson-Horowitz. She teaches evolutionary biology at Harvard and Medicine at UCLA.
DAKARI: She's also working on a book called Wildhood. All about adolescent in the animal kingdom.
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: Social animals are animals that spend some time with each other. They are not isolated and alone for their whole lives.
MOLLY BLOOM: Like a pack of wolves.
[WOLVES HOWLING]
DAKARI: Or a herd of cow.
[COW MOOING]
MOLLY BLOOM: A school of fish.
[PLOP]
DAKARI: Or a flock of seagulls.
[SQUEAKING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Barbara says social animals form groups, and those groups help protect the individual's.
DAKARI: Strength in numbers.
MOLLY BLOOM: They can also work together to find food or share shelter or even work as a team to help raise kids.
DAKARI: Barbara says this is such a successful survival strategy that we see all kinds of creatures evolve to do this.
MOLLY BLOOM: But she says these social relationships also seem to affect moods for better and for worse. For instance, social animals can be competitive.
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: For example, if two goldfish meet each other inside of an aquarium, they're going to size each other up.
GOLD FRED: Yeesh. Here comes gold Freya. She's not so tough.
GOLD FREYA: Oh, it's gold Fred. He thinks he's hot tuna when he's really just cold sushi.
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: They may kind of spar a little bit. And one of them will end up being more dominant than the other one.
GOLD FREYA: Hey, gold Fred, I heard you have gunk in your gills.
GOLD FRED: Oh, really? Your breath smells like seaweed.
GOLD FREYA: Oh yeah, why don't you come over here and say that to my fence, punk?
GOLD FRED: Actually, I'm good. I'll just stay over here where I am nice and far from your fins.
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: Now, what happens is when one goldfish wins, the chemistry in their goldfish brain changes. So that their stress hormones go down and certain chemicals in their brain that are pleasurable go up.
GOLD FREYA: Is it possible for fish to swagger because I feel like swaggering right now? Swagger, , swagger, swagger.
GOLD FRED: I feel weird. I just want to stare out the fishbowl while making this noise. What even is that noise?
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: In reality, we don't know for sure what these goldfish are feeling, and they can't tell us. But by studying them, it seems that the top goldfish ends up more outgoing and lively.
DAKARI: The other goldfish might be slow moving or might hang up at the edges of the school of fish.
MOLLY BLOOM: These behaviors have a lot in common with behaviors we associate with happiness and sadness in humans. There are other ways being social can impact animals.
DAKARI: For example, social animals form strong bonds, maybe the bond with a friend or a family member.
MOLLY BLOOM: But if they lose that other animal, they can act mopey, less motivated, and appear to us like they're really sad. It seems sadness is a part of being social.
DAKARI: Wow. This is bumming me out.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, hold on. Even here scientists think there might be an upside to feeling down. Some scientists think that after a while, sadness actually motivates animals to make changes. Maybe they'll decide to form new bonds or maybe they'll want to improve their social standing.
DAKARI: What was his animals can learn to do this by? Once again, being social.
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: All that really means is if you're a young penguin, spending time with other young penguins. Actually, penguins your age or even penguins who are a tiny bit older, tiny bit more experienced can help you be safer, which can make you feel less nervous.
PENGUINSTON: Hey, Pam Whitney. Can I hang out with you and learn from your older wiser penguiny ways?
PAM WHITNEY: Sure, Penguinston. I'll show you the best fishing spots, teach you how to avoid Leopard seals, and show you my sick dance moves. Have you heard of the waddle? It's a hit at penguin parties.
PENGUINSTON: Oh.
PAM WHITNEY: You whack yourself like you got stiff pants. That's how--
BARBARA NATTERSON-HOROWITZ: It can help you develop social skills so that you can understand how these social hierarchies work because it can be really difficult to manage those, especially when you're just entering them for the first time and you don't know the moves and you're trying to figure stuff out. The moral of the story and what we learn from studying wild animals all over the world is there's a huge amount to learn from friends and peers.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our sadness might be a side effect of being social creatures. But being social might also be the way we can share ourselves up and learn to deal with difficult feelings.
DAKARI: Hey, if it's good for penguins and goldfish, it's good enough for me.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hear hear.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
OK, Dakari, are you ready for something that might make us a little less melancholy?
DAKARI: I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, let's hear the--
VIOLET: Mystery sound.
MOLLY BLOOM: Here it is.
[CHICKENS CLUCKING]
What is your guess?
DAKARI: It's like somebody's stomach is growling.
MOLLY BLOOM: That is a really, really good guess. Well, we are going to be back and hear it again and get another chance to guess in just a little bit. This summer, we're bringing back Smash Boom Best and we are so excited.
DAKARI: Smash Boom Best is a debate podcast, but we pit you things against each other to decide which is cooler.
MOLLY BLOOM: Kid judges pick the winners and things can get pretty wild.
DAKARI: Last season, we tackled pizza versus tacos, bars versus out, books versus movies, to name a few.
MOLLY BLOOM: And a whole new season starts June 6. We've got all kinds of great matchups like Venus fly traps versus piranhas. Dakari, in your opinion, which is cooler, Venus flytrap are piranhas?
DAKARI: Piranhas.
MOLLY BLOOM: Why?
DAKARI: Because I like all types of fish.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fish are really cool. I think I might have to pick Venus flytrap because it's kind of bananas that a plant can move and eat insects. But we definitely need to hear more first before we can decide, I think. We will have a special sneak preview of this Venus flytrap versus piranhas episode for you at the end of this show.
DAKARI: So listen all the way through and just grab this Smash Boom Best so now you don't miss the new episodes.
MOLLY BLOOM: If you have a debate idea or a question for Brains On, send it to us at brainson.org/contact. That's how we got this brilliant question.
SAMUEL: I'm Samuel. I'm from San Antonio, Texas.
VIOLET: My name is Violet from [INAUDIBLE]. My question is, what's the difference between a butterfly and moth?
SAMUEL: My question is how a moth and butterfly is different?
DAKARI: We'll answer that at the end of this episode too, so keep listening.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Brains On. I'm Molly.
DAKARI: And I'm Dakari.
MOLLY BLOOM: And this is the mystery sound.
[CHICKEN CLUCKS]
Any new guesses?
DAKARI: A record scratching.
MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh, that's really good. I'm going to give you a hint, too. So the hint is is that it's an animal. So let's hear it again with that in mind.
[CHICKEN CLUCKS]
So now, we know it's an animal. What is your guess?
DAKARI: A seal.
MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh, excellent guess. Here is the answer.
TANYA BAILEY: So that was a sound of a chicken, and actually three chickens making sounds, and they're even talking a little bit right now. My name is Tanya Bailey. I work at Boynton Health, which is the health care clinic on the University of Minnesota campus.
I run the PAWS program. PAWS stands for Pet Away Worry and Stress. We bring registered therapy animals onto campus, and we have six different species that come on to campus. So including the chickens that you are hearing right now, we also have dogs and we have cats and we have rabbits and we have Guinea pigs and we have miniature horses.
MOLLY BLOOM: These chickens that we had in studio, they were very fluffy chickens. They don't look like kind of the normal chickens that you might be used to seeing. They almost look like very fuzzy dogs. We'll post some pictures online so people can see them because they are really cool. They're called silkies. And they're actually stress relief chickens, that people can pet to relieve stress.
DAKARI: I need that in my life.
MOLLY BLOOM: Definitely. Yeah, I mean it's like really cool how petting an animal can actually make you feel way better.
TANYA BAILEY: How animals can relieve stress is definitely still something that is being investigated and being researched. I think what we find is there's almost a meditative and methodical quality of petting an animal. Here you are petting this animal. And as you find that the animal relaxes, this back and forth starts to happen. The animal relaxes you relax, then the animal relaxes more then you relax more.
So what I find is for the students when they're with the animals and they're petting them, they are slowing down, their body rhythms are slowing down, their thought processes are slowing down. If nothing else, for at least the brief moments that they come to pause, it gives their mind a break.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have any animals in your life that you get to pet regularly?
DAKARI: My dog Chancellor.
MOLLY BLOOM: Chancellor. How does petting Chancellor make you feel?
DAKARI: He brings joy to me every time he's around.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, that is so nice.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
Remember when we said at the beginning of the episode that we were going to touch on some heavy topics? That part is coming up shortly. If you're a kid listening alone, this might be a good time to find an adult to listen with.
DAKARI: And adults, you might consider listening ahead to be ready to talk about any questions. This episode might inspire.
MOLLY BLOOM: Feeling sad isn't always fun.
DAKARI: Sometimes you want to run away from sadness or mask it with a grin.
MOLLY BLOOM: But feeling sad can be important. Understanding that life will always have some bad feelings mixed in is a big part of contentment.
DAKARI: Contentment. The feelings that things are all right.
MOLLY BLOOM: Right. Feeling content isn't as exciting as joy that bright spark of happiness in a moment. Contentment is a little more neutral and steadier.
DAKARI: What's the good contentment moment you had, Molly?
MOLLY BLOOM: I think recently when I was stuck in traffic I was feeling frustrated. But then I was just enjoying listening to my music and I felt like, yeah, this is going to be OK. What about you, Dakari?
DAKARI: I don't know.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's hard to pinpoint contentment because it's like probably how a lot of us feel a lot of the time of just going about and feeling kind of neutral. But it's actually a good thing to feel that way. Sometimes trying too hard to be super happy can stop contentment. Sometimes it's about letting the right feelings come up at the right time and not shooing them away too quickly.
DAKARI: Our feelings are much more helpful than flies.
MOLLY BLOOM: Totally. And one thing that can help is thinking about sad or angry feelings. Like weather. Sometimes a storm is just passing through. Have you ever thought about it that way, Dakari?
DAKARI: Yes. Ring I think about me.
MOLLY BLOOM: It helps to remember that your feelings are often telling you something.
KAZ NELSON: Any time we look at understanding what somebody is going through and experiences, I always want to explore that in order to empower them to understand what they're going through and how to manage it.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's Kaz Nelson. She's a psychiatrist or a medical doctor specializing in mental health at the University of Minnesota.
DAKARI: And she says there are all sorts of things you can do when your emotions start to feel very intense.
KAZ NELSON: There may be times where you feel kind of overstimulated or upset or feel a feeling, and you say you know what, I'm just going to go and watch TV for a couple of minutes or go sit-in my room and read a book. And those are ways of modulating one's emotion. Taking a warm bath. Taking the cold baths. Getting some intense physical exercise. Smelling something that smells good. There's a lot of things, even cuddling an animal, that you can do to change and influence your emotional system.
MOLLY BLOOM: Doctor approved animal cuddles are 100% my cup of tea. But when feelings start to seem more a season or just a giant storm that feels too big to handle, that's a different story.
DAKARI: Sometimes people have sadness that lasts for a long time and the feeling can get so big that it makes it hard to go to school or hang out with people or have fun.
MOLLY BLOOM: And sometimes when people feel these really big feelings that hurt so much, they might feel like they don't want to be alive anymore. If you or someone feels like that, there are a lot of people who can help you and want to help you.
KAZ NELSON: I want to be very clear about this that if you or somebody that or care about seems to be feeling feelings that are so big and so intense that they're very scary or not safe, we want to do everything we can to help that person. What you can do is tell a grown up you trust that you're worried about that, whether that's a teacher or a parent or your doctor.
Oftentimes, people are scared to tell others that they're feeling this way because they worry that that means that they're bad or that they shouldn't be feeling those things or that they failed in some way to manage it on their own.
Even though that's an automatic thought that your brain might be having, it's just not true. And feel free to tell your brain, hey, that's not true. People care and want to help me and it's OK to tell somebody that I'm going through this. There should be none of us that deal with these very painful or difficult things alone.
Now, there are people that feel that there's really no one safe in their family or their school or their community that they can talk to and that's OK. If that's the case, I just want to let you know that there is a phone number that you can call where there will be a caring person on the other line that's there to make sure that adults and children are safe.
And that phone number that can be called from any phone is 1-800-273-8255. That's a free telephone call and so you don't even have to have any money to call that phone number. And you can reach someone who will care and listen to you and help match you with someone to help keep you safe.
MOLLY BLOOM: Even if your feelings are really, really big, remember there are people who want to help you.
[SAD MUSIC]
MALLIKA CHOPRA: When we are sad, which is completely normal, sometimes if we just be aware of our body and we use our breath to breathe through the feelings, it can help us feel better.
MOLLY BLOOM: In every episode of this series, we're hearing from Mallika Chopra.
DAKARI: She's a meditation and mindfulness expert.
MALLIKA CHOPRA: So when we take in a deep breath, we actually bring in oxygen, which is nurturing to our body. And then when we breathe out, we breathe out a lot of the chemicals from our body but also carbon dioxide. Breath is very healing.
Breath can also slow down our thoughts and it can slow down our body. So try to take a deep breath and think a million things at the same time, and you'll find that you can't really do that. When you're in a deep breath, there's actually a pause and then you may have thoughts around it, but breath helps you to slow down.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mallika has a book for kids called Just Breathe about using meditation, which is a way to slow down your mind and body.
DAKARI: She shared this meditation with us to try when you're feeling sad.
MALLIKA CHOPRA: Sometimes we feel really sad. You may feel low energy in your body, you may feel like you want to sleep, or you may just feel like crying or teary eyed. The most important thing when you are sad to remember is that it's completely normal and natural to be sad. We all go through many different feelings. Sometimes we're happy, sometimes we're sad.
And so when we're sad, what I recommend is just to experience the feeling. Don't even worry about changing the feeling. Instead what you can do is you can find a place to sit, take a deep breath. And when you take a deep breath, you take a deep breath in and out. And then just see where you are feeling the sadness in your body. It may be sadness in your heart, it may be sadness that's coming up with tears.
And whatever is happening, just recognize it and let it feel that way and take another breath in and out and just accept the feelings. If you need to cry a little bit, if you need to feel sad that's OK. So just go ahead and feel the feelings. And whenever you are ready, you can just take another deep breath in and out saying to yourself, It's OK to feel this way, and continue with whatever else you are doing.
[RELAXING MUSIC]
DAKARI: All of us feel sad sometimes. You probably see your friend or your family feel sad at some point.
MOLLY BLOOM: And sometimes it's hard to know what to say to someone when they feel sad.
DAKARI: Let's say you're a plane and you have a pal, a celestial body that isn't called a planet anymore.
PLUTO: Oh, man, Neptune. Being a planet was my very, very, very favorite thing.
MOLLY BLOOM: Your first instinct might be to try to cheer them up.
NEPTUNE: Don't worry, Pluto. You're still technically a dwarf planet.
DAKARI: But that might not work.
PLUTO: But I want to be a real planet.
MOLLY BLOOM: It doesn't feel too good when someone tells you to just change your feeling because that's hard to do.
DAKARI: Instead of telling them to feel happier, try showing them that you see their feelings.
NEPTUNE: Gosh, Pluto. You seem so sad that those earthlings aren't calling you a fool planet anymore.
PLUTO: Huh? Yeah, I feel really, really sad.
MOLLY BLOOM: You can imagine how you might feel if you were in their situation and share that with them.
NEPTUNE: That seems really hard. It's not fun losing your title.
PLUTO: Yeah, it is hard.
DAKARI: You can also ask questions.
NEPTUNE: What was your favorite thing about being called a planet?
PLUTO: You know how the earthlings used to sing that song and my name came right after yours? I always liked being next to you in the song.
NEPTUNE: Also sing you the song the same way if you want. We could sing it together whenever you're ready.
MOLLY BLOOM: Listening to someone's feelings can be more helpful than telling them how to feel.
PLUTO: Actually, what's funny about this whole thing, since I'm a dwarf planet and all, I can't actually tell anyone about my feelings. But if I could, you'd be the first person I'd call.
NEPTUNE: Thanks, pal. I appreciate you, too.
BOTH (NEPTUNE AND PLUTO): Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune, and Pluto.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Everyone feels sad sometimes.
DAKARI: We evolve to be social animals, and sometimes being social can lead to sadness.
MOLLY BLOOM: And sadness is important. So you should let yourself feel it.
DAKARI: Listening to your friends in question can help them feel better.
MOLLY BLOOM: But if you're feeling sad all the time, it's a good idea to ask for help. That's it for this episode of Brains On.
DAKARI: Brains On is produced by Marc Sanchez, Sanden Totten, and Molly Bloom.
MOLLY BLOOM: This series was also produced by Menaka Wilhelm and Sam Choo with support from Call to Mind, APM's mental health initiative. We had production help from Hannah Harris Greene, Kristina Lopez, Elyssa Dudley, and Jackie Kim.
We had engineering help from Johnny Vince Evans, Veronica Rodriguez, and Bob White. Special thanks to Ja'Marr Pete, Andres Gonzales, Nadia Fitzgerald, Cass Nelson, Aaron Westgate, Phyllis Fletcher, Laurie Galata, Sara Pineda, Ari Saperstein, Jonathan Shiflett, and Mary Knopf.
DAKARI: Now, before we go, it's time for a Moment of Um.
What's the difference between a butterfly and a moth?
How are moths and butterflies different?
BRIAN BROWN: My name is Brian Brown. I'm curator of entomology here at the Natural History Museum in Los Angeles. And my job is to oversee research and growth of the insect collection here. 6 million specimens from all over the world, you never run out of new things to find. Well, to start with in one sense, there's really no difference between butterflies and moths. They're both members of a group called the lepidoptera or the scaly winged insects.
And we tend to think of the colorful day active ones as butterflies and the drab nocturnal ones as moths, but there's exceptions to both those rules. There are drab butterflies and there are day active colorful moths as well. But in reality, they're both members of the same group. And especially to tell butterflies from moths, the antennae are really important. Butterflies have antennae that have what we call a clubbed tip, that is they're long and narrow, and there's an expansion at the tip.
Moths tend to have antennae that are hair-like so there's no expansion at the tip or they have really furry antennae. The moths that have really furry antennae are males and they use those furry antennae to find females that produce pheromones or basically love perfume to try and track the males.
The males have to detect this pheromones or this chemical over a long distance in very low concentrations. So they need as much antenna surface area as they can get. The next time you see one of the lepidoptera or the scaly winged insects a butterfly or a moth, take a look at the antennae and see what they look like. Are they hair-like? Are they clubbed? Are they really furry? That way you'll be able to tell which they are.
MOLLY BLOOM: This list of names makes my heart soar like a butterfly. This is the Brains Honor Roll. These are the brilliant listeners who share their questions, ideas, mystery sounds, drawings, and high fives with us.
[LISTING HONOR ROLL]
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
We'll be back soon with more answers to your questions.
DAKARI: Thanks for listening.
MOLLY BLOOM: Here is your sneak peek of Smash Boom Best.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
This is Smash Boom Best. The show about showdowns. All right, let's get back to our Smash Boom Battle of the Day the Venus flytrap versus piranhas. Our watery warrior and peckish plant are really bringing it. Put on your handling gloves and let's dive in. It's time for our creative challenge, the micro round.
ANNOUNCER: Micro round.
MOLLY BLOOM: This week's micro round challenge is Suzie and Stylings. Each contestant has been instructed to prepare a poem about their side in the style of Dr. Seuss. He's the author of Green Eggs and Ham and Cat in the Hat.
KAI: He's known for sick rhymes that never fall flat.
MOLLY BLOOM: Exactly. Jed went first in the last round. So Tracy, will have you take the lead with this one. Let's hear it.
TRACY: Look, I'm a fish, I'm a fish with a dream. I dream to be liked, that people won't scream. Right now the people they're terribly scared, they're afraid of piranhas, it's really unfair. I only bite when I'm hungry and when I fight, and yes, I do bark all day and all night. But trust me, I only use my sharp teeth for good. I really don't bite all the things that I could. I use great restraint. Can't you see? Can't you tell? I haven't eaten anyone in an hour.
Well, I'll tell you what, though, that you need to know. That houseplant you're watering, that thing should go. Venus flytrap you say, what an interesting plant? Well, I'm not going near it. I won't and I can't. You can't trust a plant that would try to dissolve you. A plant's dinner should not involve you.
That plant it has plants plans to entrap us. The way that it's looking, it's going to snap us. But don't worry, my friend, I'll bite our way out. My teeth are that sharp, I can fight our way out. They'll hear me barking, get back you green terror. Then I'll be a hero. You'll know that I care. That's all that I want. As a grumpy bitey fish, just to be liked, that's my one big great wish.
KAI: That was really good. That was like some like Lin-Manuel Miranda Hamilton stuff. That was like a roller coaster of emotion.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, team front really came out swinging with a volley of verse. Tracy is setting the sushi bar very high today, but let's see what team Venus flytrap has got for us. Jed, take it away.
JED: All right. This is called The Better Pet. Poor Michael Fitzsimmons friend, the nine-year-old kid who just wanted a friend. He asked for a fish and got one that bites, worse than a supervillain in tights. One said winter's day he stayed home with a cold, and while feeding his pet he sneezed so I'm told. Alas! His poor hand for a second it lingered, inside the bowl and now Mikey's eight fingered.
If only he'd been more like Susie Fedora who begged her dad for some really cool flora, he got her a flytrap, now she's free of gross bugs and has a green friend that will tolerate hugs. When picking a carnivorous pet best not rush it, and if it has fins please hurry and flush it. The wise child sides with these wonder plants because piranhas you see are just underpants.
KAI: I don't know how I feel about that. You're just going to kill an innocent fish like that.
TRACY: I'm an underpants?
JED: You bit off two of his fingers.
MOLLY BLOOM: That was some seriously fierce rhyming all around. Kai and listeners at home, take a minute to mull it over and please award a point to whoever you think won that round.
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